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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if you vote Tory now…

740 replies

Joanna1988124 · 12/04/2022 21:48

You’re effectively propping up this absolute shit show of a government and have no empathy.

I’ll be honest, I’ve voted conservative before as a middle class family their (taxation) policies have suited me more than Labour. I honestly feel ashamed of this and I wish I could’ve seen that the conservatives agenda of ‘levelling up’ is BS.

Regardless of your personal situation, enough is enough now right? People are reliant on food banks, they’re choosing between heating and eating. Austerity has been a total nightmare for society causing the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

OP posts:
AlexaShutUp · 14/04/2022 13:52

I'm not using it as a weapon over anyone. I'm simply stating what I see.

You are stating what you see (or at least, what you claim to see or what you choose to see) in order to justify your viewpoint. That's fair enough.

Personally, I am sceptical about the accuracy of your judgements, particularly after reading your very ignorant post earlier today about unaccompanied asylum seeking children not having experienced trauma. It is shocking but not surprising that someone working in children's services could be so oblivious.

Anyway, it's a democracy. You're free to vote as you wish. I am free to judge you for those choices.

Blossomtoes · 14/04/2022 13:52

People are not starving like the poor in third world countries. It's hyperbole to say that they are

Nobody’s said they are. It’s bloody sad when that’s how low you set the bar.

Blossomtoes · 14/04/2022 13:55

@DragonOverTheMoon

Your reality Alexa, that you're chosing to use as a weapon against those who don't hold your values.
Pot/kettle. The lack of self awareness is mind blowing.
DragonOverTheMoon · 14/04/2022 14:04

LOL I said their trauma was different but misquote me to make yourself look more reasonable and me not.

It's PTSD rather than CPTSD. And if you worked or had any knowledge of care leavers and UASC YP you would also see that due to their more stable and nurturing upbringing with their families they have a completely different set of challenges compared to british kids being abused and neglected in their childhoods. It's a bit like the world trade centre - van der kolk ect explain it as it being a one off trauma that doesn't sink in to be internalised. It's trauma but not complex trauma. They also don't deal with it like british dc do. They find being around traumatised british dc traumatic!

But yeah, I'm such an evil person because I don't believe in voting for Labour at this current time due to bigger and more long term issues for women and children.

AlexaShutUp · 14/04/2022 14:20

You said that their main challenge was English language and suggested that sending them off to boarding school would be a good solution.

It sounds like you have no fucking clue about the backgrounds that many of these kids have come from. Many have experienced trauma, abuse and neglect in their families of origin, as well as all sorts of other horrors. I worked with kids who had been sold by their parents into sexual slavery. Terrorised by step parents. Tortured for their sexuality. All manner of shit.

It probably isn't your fault. When I was working with UASCs, the social workers barely had time to do anything for the kids they were assigned to. A lot of what they did was box ticking while others provided the care that was actually needed.

DragonOverTheMoon · 14/04/2022 14:33

Yes I'm not a support worker, I don't provide care. I arrange for care to be provided if it'sbeen assessed that they do. That's my job, not sure why you would try to make that into a bad thing?

I have extensive experience in my field. I don't think boarding school is a bad idea. I'm not sure why you would even think thats barbaric. Routine, structure, boundaries and education would be very beneficial to uasc YP, more so if they did have CPTSD as well. And speaking english is such a barrier! They can't do anything in this country without learning the basics and no college courses without ESOL first. How would they even describe to a support worker what they needed support with without going through translators and palava. Loneliness is the common theme amongst these YP and care leavers. Speaking english supports integration and social networking. But tbh, I can't be arsed to explain to you about social networking, social thinning and the impact of Loneliness. If you want to know more I'll send you my dissertation.

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/04/2022 14:38

Mordaunt and Blunt are just a couple of MPs.

Penny Mordaunt is not just an MP, she is the Minister for Trade and has been in the Cabinet for a long time.

AlexaShutUp · 14/04/2022 14:39

Thanks, but I'm not interested in reading it. If you think that a normal boarding school would be a suitable option for those kids, then I don't rate your opinion.

Specialist residential care with suitably trained staff, appropriate therapeutic support and tailored education provision, absolutely. But that isn't what you were suggesting.

DragonOverTheMoon · 14/04/2022 14:40

There's a live stream on FB now of Boris talking about the refugees. Filled with comments of good job Boris. I don't agree with what they're doing, but the general public does. Tories are going to be in for many more years. Labour should be wiping the table with them instead of huperbole around food banks and denying sex based rights.

Blossomtoes · 14/04/2022 14:45

@DragonOverTheMoon

There's a live stream on FB now of Boris talking about the refugees. Filled with comments of good job Boris. I don't agree with what they're doing, but the general public does. Tories are going to be in for many more years. Labour should be wiping the table with them instead of huperbole around food banks and denying sex based rights.
Hate to tell you this but Facebook attracts racists like shit attracts flies. It tells us nothing about widespread public perception.
AlexaShutUp · 14/04/2022 14:47

Yes, I'm sure that lots of people will support this policy. I despair.

And yes, we can agree that Labour should be wiping the floor with them right now, and they are abject failing to do so. I agree with you about the sex based rights, and wish that they could sort themselves out on this. I disagree about the foodbanks because the situation in my local community is desperate.

Either way, people will carry on voting Tory I'm sure, while the rest of us remain politically homeless and wishing that there was an alternative that might actually stand a chance.

DdraigGoch · 14/04/2022 14:59

[quote DownNative]@DdraigGoch

Considering Macron is feeling the heat from Le Pen this time round, I agree it's pretty doubtful France would have gone as far as they did.

The last few years under Macron suggests they wouldn't have.[/quote]
Yes indeed, remember that much of his premiership has been characterised by violent protests over the cost of fuel. He was the président des très riches after all.

He's saving his own skin, no more.

DownNative · 14/04/2022 15:05

@DragonOverTheMoon

I personally think the hyperbole is around 'starving dc'. We don't have starving dc in this country unless there is neglect and abuse within the home. Posters say others rely on food banks, they don't, it's rubbish, you can't rely on a food bank. They won't dole them out weekly. You get 3 at a time. I'm not saying there arent poor people, I'm not saying that it's not shit that the people in power get richer whilst we all get poorer, but we're not in a starving war zone living off rice and beans in this country. Yes there is awful practices with UC, the 5 week wait and only money for two dc ect yes the poor asylum seekers can't work and get shit asda vouchers to live on, but we're not starving on refugee portions, far from it. We're one of the richest countries in the world. I'd rather vote for a party that has finally woken up to the TRA agenda than one who hasnt even though I don't agree with them economically
Yes. You'd have been better off citing facts and figures to support what you're saying though.

PublishedWednesday, 14 July, 2021, the House Of Commons Library states near the end that:

"Food bank data should not be used as a proxy for poverty measurements...."

A study published in the open access journalBMC Public Health suggests that headline figures may have overstated the growth of food banks in the UK.

“This study fills a key evidence gap by presenting the first estimate of the proportion of adults and children using UK food banks.

Headline figures about the prevalence of food bank rely on data from the Trussell Trust – the largest provider of emergency food in Britain – and capture the number of food supplies that are distributed, but because people can visit food banks more than once, the overall number of recipients is unknown. This means that an estimate of the proportion of the population who use food banks has not been possible so far.

If scaled up nationally, this estimate would equate to approximately 850,000 people in Britain each year. It shows that while only a minority of people use food banks, this still equates to a substantial number of people. Growth in the distribution of emergency food was inflated by a rising number of people visiting the food bank on multiple occasions, suggesting that for some people using food banks, this behaviour is becoming more entrenched as the circumstances underlying food bank use aren’t addressed."

  • Dr. Elisabeth Garratt of the Centre for Social Investigation, Nuffield College, Oxford.

Full FullFact stated in 2017:

"The Trustsays thatthe average person using a food bank will do so twice in a year, so it estimates that around 590,000 different people used its services in 2016/17."

Sunderland Food Bank stated:

"We don’t claim that The Sunderland is reporting unique users. We measure numbers given three days’ food, which is a measure of volume."

This is the same for the Trussel Trust, in fact. They don't claim to be reporting unique users of their food banks.

They also said:

"Recent evidence from a wide range of Sunderland foodbank showed that 69% of foodbank clients only needed one foodbank voucher in a year to help them break out of crisis. Only 15% of people needed more than three food vouchers in a year."

This is also in line with the Trussel Trust.

Most food bank users are NOT relying on them weekly. Any that are get flagged in the system and given further help, but they're a small minority of food bank users.

If you use one of the Trussel Trust food banks three or more times, the system flags you up as requiring further help.

The upshot of all of this is that whilst the Trussel Trust handed out 2,537,198 million food parcels this is NOT the same thing as 2,537,198 million UNIQUE individuals receiving food parcels.

Food bank usage is also NOT restricted to low income areas as there is food bank usage in high income areas too.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 14/04/2022 15:14

Its like having a conversation about which bricks to use to build a house. You can't have a house without walls so there's no point in pretending they're not vitally important but equally a house build without foundations will lack durable structural integrity. Legal recognition and protection of females as a sex class are the foundations. Labour are happy to discuss our brick requirements but would like to give away our foundations. The conservatives think should sort out our own bricks but will maintain the foundations.

Surely being able to eat, be warm and have somewhere safe to sleep should be the foundations all of which is being made harder to achieve by people lacking in empathy voting Tory

FOJN · 14/04/2022 15:39

Surely being able to eat, be warm and have somewhere safe to sleep should be the foundations all of which is being made harder to achieve by people lacking in empathy voting Tory

I don't think you've understood the analogy.

Am I lacking in empathy for thinking it's barbaric to incarcerate male sex offenders with women who can't escape?

Am I lacking in empathy because I think denying female rape survivors women only spaces to discuss their experiences compounds their trauma?

Am I lacking in empathy because I think it's abhorrent to tell an NHS patient she couldn't have been raped because there were no men on the ward when CCTV evidence tells us there was a male patient? Their identity does not change rape?

I could fill pages with examples...

The conservatives have made a huge mistake, Labour would like to enshrine that mistake in law. Tell me how we protect the women in the examples I've given if, as Labour believe, TWAW. We literally cannot make a case for their protection unless we know what a woman is, acknowledge why sex segregated spaces are important and maintain the laws which protect us.

In fact without legal recognition of our sex class you will never be able to make a case for being disadvantaged or treated unfairly because of your sex.

51% of the population are female, recognising that is the foundation of a fairer society.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 14/04/2022 15:45

Am I lacking in empathy for thinking it's barbaric to incarcerate male sex offenders with women who can't escape?

I believe its the Tories in power

Am I lacking in empathy because I think denying female rape survivors women only spaces to discuss their experiences compounds their trauma?

I believe its the Tories in power

Am I lacking in empathy because I think it's abhorrent to tell an NHS patient she couldn't have been raped because there were no men on the ward when CCTV evidence tells us there was a male patient? Their identity does not change rape?

I believe its the Tories in power

These are happening now and will worsen wether Johnson believes biological men dont belong in womens sports or not but still couldnt tell you if women have a cervix or not

AlexaShutUp · 14/04/2022 15:47

Exactly @JustAnotherPoster00. Despite Boris apparently knowing what a woman is, these things are being allowed to happen anyway. So we can only assume that he doesn't really care.

Quelle surprise.

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/04/2022 16:29

Is rape even a crime anymore?
In the year to September 2021, just 1.3% of rape cases recorded by police resulted in a suspect being charged (or receiving a summons).
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48095118.amp

ExplodingElephants · 14/04/2022 17:02

YABU to think it’ll be different with any other government. We don’t exactly have a stellar choice awaiting do we?

Theunamedcat · 14/04/2022 17:07

Rape isn't really a crime anymore it has effectively been decriminalised

Paedophilia isn't a crime either tbh traffic offences carry more punishment

Wrong think is a crime

Bad tweets to footballers is a crime

In my town speeding in one area is a crime another not a crime

Congregating outside McDonald's is a crime Congregating outside a meeting consisting of women and heckling and abusing them not a crime

MarshaBradyo · 14/04/2022 17:24

@FOJN

Surely being able to eat, be warm and have somewhere safe to sleep should be the foundations all of which is being made harder to achieve by people lacking in empathy voting Tory

I don't think you've understood the analogy.

Am I lacking in empathy for thinking it's barbaric to incarcerate male sex offenders with women who can't escape?

Am I lacking in empathy because I think denying female rape survivors women only spaces to discuss their experiences compounds their trauma?

Am I lacking in empathy because I think it's abhorrent to tell an NHS patient she couldn't have been raped because there were no men on the ward when CCTV evidence tells us there was a male patient? Their identity does not change rape?

I could fill pages with examples...

The conservatives have made a huge mistake, Labour would like to enshrine that mistake in law. Tell me how we protect the women in the examples I've given if, as Labour believe, TWAW. We literally cannot make a case for their protection unless we know what a woman is, acknowledge why sex segregated spaces are important and maintain the laws which protect us.

In fact without legal recognition of our sex class you will never be able to make a case for being disadvantaged or treated unfairly because of your sex.

51% of the population are female, recognising that is the foundation of a fairer society.

No you’re not lacking in empathy and yes it’s important
TooBigForMyBoots · 14/04/2022 18:01

Rape isn't really a crime anymore it has effectively been decriminalised

Yep, under a Tory government only 1.3% of reported rapes resulted in charges. Not even conviction, just charges being brought. But hey, the Conservatives are the party of Law and Order and will protect women.Easter Angry

FOJN · 14/04/2022 18:40

JustAnotherPoster00

Yes the Tories are in power and this is happening in breech of the EA so I sure as hell won't vote for a party who wants to introduce state endorsed abuse of women.

lifeturnsonadime · 14/04/2022 18:59

FOJN

Women need to be silent and not to mention the risks to women and children. Especially if it inconveniences the Labour Party.

It's the same old story really. Women just don't really count. Evidence that the policy will harm women and children needs to be brushed aside. It's the least important thing.

The fact that women have always had a bad lot isn't reason to sign our rights away for good. At least it isn't for me.

Marney · 14/04/2022 19:12

If any party got rid of the you caǹ only phone for a Doctors appointment
at eight in the morning when you join a hopeless qu e and finally get told at eight fourteen the appointments have all gone so phone another day at eigh r I would prob vote for them I've a potentially serious problem and it's the same every day.Otherwise I would vote Tory Iwalked the dog more than once a day and know plenty of p3ople who made the decision to stretçh the rules and take the odd extra walk

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