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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if you vote Tory now…

740 replies

Joanna1988124 · 12/04/2022 21:48

You’re effectively propping up this absolute shit show of a government and have no empathy.

I’ll be honest, I’ve voted conservative before as a middle class family their (taxation) policies have suited me more than Labour. I honestly feel ashamed of this and I wish I could’ve seen that the conservatives agenda of ‘levelling up’ is BS.

Regardless of your personal situation, enough is enough now right? People are reliant on food banks, they’re choosing between heating and eating. Austerity has been a total nightmare for society causing the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

OP posts:
AlexaShutUp · 14/04/2022 00:41

I don't think people voting Tory have ever had any empathy, have they?

Surely people vote Tory because they think it will make them better off personally and because they don't really give a shit about the vulnerable people who will lose out as a consequence? They would obviously vote differently if they cared?

Yes, of course it's true that the group who are now struggling is bigger than ever, and that's awful, but lots of vulnerable people have been struggling for years and we knew that the Tories weren't going to help. This is not new.

I'm guessing that Tory voters only really begin to discover "empathy" when they start to realise that they are not that far off being in the vulnerable group themselves. In other words, it's fear rather than empathy as such.

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/04/2022 00:54

What are you trying to accomplish by posting this stuff? Everyone knows there are Conservatives with a variety of opinions on this, and have changed the majority view over the last years too.

I am trying to accomplish women's rights. Penny Mordaunt is a full on TRA, she hasn't and wont change on this. And she is being tipped as a possible party leader.Shock I am opposing Crispin Blunt, Jamie Wallis (and his supporters) and I am utterly disgusted by that mendacious cunt PM Johnson, pretending he is on the side of women. He's not.

But most of all, I am calling bullshit on the claim that the Conservatives are the party of women's rights. They're not and never have been.

Vote Tory, but don't kid yourselves that it is a vote for women's rights. It's not and it never has been. Vote for them by all means, but don't do it because you think it will protect women. It won't.

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/04/2022 00:57

Please xcuse the gin induced tautology in my post.Blush

DdraigGoch · 14/04/2022 00:58

@MojoMoon

People who think Boris is doing a good job with the Ukraine crisis.

Why? What has he done?

Does it not concern you that the Tories have taken millions of pounds of donations from Putin linked Russians? Why do you think those donations were made?
Why have the Tories dragged their feet on requiring the actual owners of properties to be public information? Cameron put the idea forward and then it was squashed - they say they will now do it due to Ukraine crisis. What was stopping them before?

Since 2014 the UK has been quietly training the Ukrainian armed forces in how to resist a Russian invasion. The British Government has spent the last few months supplying arms to Ukraine, long before the rest of Europe sat up and noticed.

Would a Labour government have done the same? I'm not sure.

Zelensky certainly seems to be grateful for the assistance given by the British, while Macron and Biden make gaffe after gaffe.

MintJulia · 14/04/2022 01:04

@TooBigForMyBoots

What are you trying to accomplish by posting this stuff? Everyone knows there are Conservatives with a variety of opinions on this, and have changed the majority view over the last years too.

I am trying to accomplish women's rights. Penny Mordaunt is a full on TRA, she hasn't and wont change on this. And she is being tipped as a possible party leader.Shock I am opposing Crispin Blunt, Jamie Wallis (and his supporters) and I am utterly disgusted by that mendacious cunt PM Johnson, pretending he is on the side of women. He's not.

But most of all, I am calling bullshit on the claim that the Conservatives are the party of women's rights. They're not and never have been.

Vote Tory, but don't kid yourselves that it is a vote for women's rights. It's not and it never has been. Vote for them by all means, but don't do it because you think it will protect women. It won't.

But voting Labour is a proactive and knowing vote against women's rights. A step too far for me.
DdraigGoch · 14/04/2022 01:40

@Blossomtoes

Our government is no different from any other in that respect

Other countries don’t seem to be inflicting the same economic damage on their citizens. The French haven’t seen their energy bills double.

Macron has forced EDF to take the hit in the short term because he is worried about the upcoming election. There will need to be a bailout worth tens of billions after the election.

Of course, France is less exposed than most countries, on account of having so many nuclear power stations.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 14/04/2022 01:59

Do you really think Labour would have kept things more open during covid? That hasn't been the pattern of progressive governments in other countries at all, quite the opposite.

It is true lockdowns caused a lot of harm. Something I’ve posted a fair bit about. Unfortunately Labour were even more for restrictions and lockdowns and the left generally were ok with thinking about the risk from Covid but not the damage from lockdowns. Which is a huge pity as many were vulnerable to the risks from lockdown.

I hope it never happens again but Labour have been keener to neglect those hurt by them so I’m not seeing much opposition there

The above posts really sum up why it's pointless speaking with the remaining tory voters.

The post they are replying to was one that detailed the real life impacts of over 10 years of tory cuts, highlighting just what their failure to invest in education, social services, health, communities, public services, etc, etc has led too. Their response, as you can see, is to skip over all that nasty stuff and simply say "Well Labour might have been as bad".

I genuinely can't get my head around that thought process. You have insurmountable evidence that the tories have and are having a horrific impact on the most vulnerable in society, have overseen widening inequality, unseen since the Victorian era, and a reduction in living standards across the board and STILL you ignore it all "cause someone else might have done worse".

Labour might have been worse if they'd been in power, they might not have been, it's irrelevant. The tories were and are in power, their failures are their's alone. Yet the tory faithful refuse to hold them accountable. When that's the level of denial/willful ignorance you're dealing with there really is no point.

SouperNoodle · 14/04/2022 02:39

@Thebestwaytoscareatory

Do you really think Labour would have kept things more open during covid? That hasn't been the pattern of progressive governments in other countries at all, quite the opposite.

It is true lockdowns caused a lot of harm. Something I’ve posted a fair bit about. Unfortunately Labour were even more for restrictions and lockdowns and the left generally were ok with thinking about the risk from Covid but not the damage from lockdowns. Which is a huge pity as many were vulnerable to the risks from lockdown.

I hope it never happens again but Labour have been keener to neglect those hurt by them so I’m not seeing much opposition there

The above posts really sum up why it's pointless speaking with the remaining tory voters.

The post they are replying to was one that detailed the real life impacts of over 10 years of tory cuts, highlighting just what their failure to invest in education, social services, health, communities, public services, etc, etc has led too. Their response, as you can see, is to skip over all that nasty stuff and simply say "Well Labour might have been as bad".

I genuinely can't get my head around that thought process. You have insurmountable evidence that the tories have and are having a horrific impact on the most vulnerable in society, have overseen widening inequality, unseen since the Victorian era, and a reduction in living standards across the board and STILL you ignore it all "cause someone else might have done worse".

Labour might have been worse if they'd been in power, they might not have been, it's irrelevant. The tories were and are in power, their failures are their's alone. Yet the tory faithful refuse to hold them accountable. When that's the level of denial/willful ignorance you're dealing with there really is no point.

👏👏👏
MarshaBradyo · 14/04/2022 04:57

@Thebestwaytoscareatory

Do you really think Labour would have kept things more open during covid? That hasn't been the pattern of progressive governments in other countries at all, quite the opposite.

It is true lockdowns caused a lot of harm. Something I’ve posted a fair bit about. Unfortunately Labour were even more for restrictions and lockdowns and the left generally were ok with thinking about the risk from Covid but not the damage from lockdowns. Which is a huge pity as many were vulnerable to the risks from lockdown.

I hope it never happens again but Labour have been keener to neglect those hurt by them so I’m not seeing much opposition there

The above posts really sum up why it's pointless speaking with the remaining tory voters.

The post they are replying to was one that detailed the real life impacts of over 10 years of tory cuts, highlighting just what their failure to invest in education, social services, health, communities, public services, etc, etc has led too. Their response, as you can see, is to skip over all that nasty stuff and simply say "Well Labour might have been as bad".

I genuinely can't get my head around that thought process. You have insurmountable evidence that the tories have and are having a horrific impact on the most vulnerable in society, have overseen widening inequality, unseen since the Victorian era, and a reduction in living standards across the board and STILL you ignore it all "cause someone else might have done worse".

Labour might have been worse if they'd been in power, they might not have been, it's irrelevant. The tories were and are in power, their failures are their's alone. Yet the tory faithful refuse to hold them accountable. When that's the level of denial/willful ignorance you're dealing with there really is no point.

Of course if I think lockdown was harmful I’m going to take into consideration the opposition being even more pro lockdown and restrictions. I would have liked more people to consider the harms from lockdowns instead of demanding more of ithem.

I also would prefer Labour to consider why it failed to connect with the electorate at the last election and suffered such a strong defeat rather than blaming people for not voting for them.

On the pointless to engage issue yes you’re probably right. I’m a floating voter as I said, but I don’t hate people for voting differently. And I’ve voted Labour and Remain so not always on winning side. But a democracy where people can vote according to issues they hold important or policies they connect with is crucial. I’m not up for any abuse based on votes so that’s where we depart, that level of hatred isn’t something I can agree with.

Self ID and fivincusk policies are concerning for me re Labour but as a remain voter a policy around take back control (which I’ve just read about doesn’t appeal) so I’m going to have to weigh it up at next election and decide closer to the time.

MarshaBradyo · 14/04/2022 04:58

Financial..

jgw1 · 14/04/2022 06:56

I mean - it's never been the case that governments at the ministerial level has been responsible for things like prison policy or choosing school curricula. How could they be?

Michael Gove...

jgw1 · 14/04/2022 06:58

@AlexaShutUp

I don't think people voting Tory have ever had any empathy, have they?

Surely people vote Tory because they think it will make them better off personally and because they don't really give a shit about the vulnerable people who will lose out as a consequence? They would obviously vote differently if they cared?

Yes, of course it's true that the group who are now struggling is bigger than ever, and that's awful, but lots of vulnerable people have been struggling for years and we knew that the Tories weren't going to help. This is not new.

I'm guessing that Tory voters only really begin to discover "empathy" when they start to realise that they are not that far off being in the vulnerable group themselves. In other words, it's fear rather than empathy as such.

What you describe is the current incarnation of the Tory party. I do not think it is true to nearly the same extent if the Tory party was led by Kenneth Clarke for instance.
jgw1 · 14/04/2022 07:00

@TooBigForMyBoots

What are you trying to accomplish by posting this stuff? Everyone knows there are Conservatives with a variety of opinions on this, and have changed the majority view over the last years too.

I am trying to accomplish women's rights. Penny Mordaunt is a full on TRA, she hasn't and wont change on this. And she is being tipped as a possible party leader.Shock I am opposing Crispin Blunt, Jamie Wallis (and his supporters) and I am utterly disgusted by that mendacious cunt PM Johnson, pretending he is on the side of women. He's not.

But most of all, I am calling bullshit on the claim that the Conservatives are the party of women's rights. They're not and never have been.

Vote Tory, but don't kid yourselves that it is a vote for women's rights. It's not and it never has been. Vote for them by all means, but don't do it because you think it will protect women. It won't.

But Boris knows what a woman is, he's shafted so many of them...
jgw1 · 14/04/2022 07:03

Macron has forced EDF to take the hit in the short term because he is worried about the upcoming election. There will need to be a bailout worth tens of billions after the election.

Luckily EDF can fund that by putting our bills up.

DdraigGoch · 14/04/2022 08:52

@jgw1

Macron has forced EDF to take the hit in the short term because he is worried about the upcoming election. There will need to be a bailout worth tens of billions after the election.

Luckily EDF can fund that by putting our bills up.

They can't. Quite apart from the government cap, competition stops them putting prices up by much more than their costs have risen, people just switch. The oil giants might be coining it in at the moment but the electricity suppliers are not.
Wintersonata · 14/04/2022 08:52

Why no one said, males in women's prisons, that's crazy, stop right now, I don;t know

Mangy because those who are in favour of males in women’s prisons have a powerful network of supporters who makes the lives of those opposing it absolute hell.

DdraigGoch · 14/04/2022 09:03

I am trying to accomplish women's rights. Penny Mordaunt is a full on TRA, she hasn't and wont change on this. And she is being tipped as a possible party leader.shock I am opposing Crispin Blunt, Jamie Wallis (and his supporters) and I am utterly disgusted by that mendacious cunt PM Johnson, pretending he is on the side of women. He's not.

There's no chance of Mordaunt becoming the next party leader. No chance at all. The front runners (now that Sunak's brand is tarnished) are Liz Truss and Sajid Javid. Both of whom have been clear that biology matters.

Mordaunt and Blunt are just a couple of MPs. All I've heard about Wallis is that he's got dysphoria, I've not seen any suggestion from him (as he still wishes to be known) that he's up for invading women's spaces or cheating at sport (if I've missed anything, please enlighten me).

TRAs are a tiny minority on the Conservative benches, just like Rosie Duffield is in a minority of one on the opposition benches (yes, some others have privately sent their support but none are prepared to go public).

mrshoho · 14/04/2022 09:04

@Wintersonata

Why no one said, males in women's prisons, that's crazy, stop right now, I don;t know

Mangy because those who are in favour of males in women’s prisons have a powerful network of supporters who makes the lives of those opposing it absolute hell.

And wrongly accused of not upholding the Equality Act. Stonewall misinterpreted and everyone was taken in or too scared to question for fear of being accused of bigotry.
FOJN · 14/04/2022 09:14

I don't think we need to worry about Crispin Blunt after his comments this week.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 14/04/2022 09:19

[quote toconclude]@FrankLeeSpeaking

Yup. And the number of people here falling for it is indicative of the toxic levels of transphobia on MN[/quote]
Advocating for women's rights, for fair competition in sport ('exclusion' is a lie, trans people are still eligible to compete just not entirely on the terms they dictate) and objecting to being referred to as a 'bleeder', are not transphobia.

Transphobic content is not allowed on this site. Those posts are likely be deleted before they've had three readers.

HTH

SleeplessInEngland · 14/04/2022 09:21

"Labour would be just as shit as the tories. Vote tory!"

DownNative · 14/04/2022 09:25

[quote Blossomtoes]The only comparisons pertinent are major European economies. It’s pointless comparing apples and pears. Here are details of Denmark’s strategy for supporting its citizens.

www.thelocal.dk/20220408/danish-taxpayers-to-receive-19-9-billion-kroner-in-rebates/[/quote]
Wrong as what happens to the four Central European economies WILL have a serious impact on the biggest European economies.

Ukraine, bread basket of Europe, has already affected them with more coming.

Even so, you blatantly ignored a comparison between the UK and Germany:

"It’s not that the UK is necessarily the miser of Europe. There are more generous countries – yes, there are few that are as generous as what has been done in France – but then you look at places like Germany and we look comparatively better off than many German households."

  • Josie Dent, managing economist at the Centre for Economics and Business Research.

That puts Germany into perspective too.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 14/04/2022 09:29

@knowinglesseveryday

The notion that the Tories stand for woman's right is utterly farcical.
Look, people are not stupid. They know Johnson is an opportunist who knows a vote winner when he sees one. They also know politicians lie (nothing unique to see here). They are very often remainers, who were ardently anti-Brexit and probably couldn't have contemplated voting Tory as recently as a year ago. It would have taken something pretty serious to make those people grit their teeth and vote Tory.

But if you have the slightest degree of insight into the slow march of assault on women's rights, this is too important to ignore. At present it's a choice between hoping Boris holds the line or voting for Labour, in which case you WILL get the GRA reform, which is tantamount to a permanent signing away of women's rights. And once they are gone, they're never coming back.

It's a no-brainer. Turkeys voting for Christmas only just begins to cover it.

The Tories haven't won my vote. The supposed 'left' (who haven't been the left in three generations) have lost it, and until they start showing respect for the well-being and safeguarding of half the population, they are never getting it back.

jgw1 · 14/04/2022 09:29

*Wrong as what happens to the four Central European economies WILL have a serious impact on the biggest European economies.

Ukraine, bread basket of Europe, has already affected them with more coming.

Even so, you blatantly ignored a comparison between the UK and Germany:

"It’s not that the UK is necessarily the miser of Europe. There are more generous countries – yes, there are few that are as generous as what has been done in France – but then you look at places like Germany and we look comparatively better off than many German households."

  • Josie Dent, managing economist at the Centre for Economics and Business Research.

That puts Germany into perspective too.*

Is one of Germany's biggest electricity companies owned by the French government?

DownNative · 14/04/2022 09:31

@DdraigGoch

People forget that France are able to do what they've done with EDF because energy is still nationalised there.

Most European economies cannot do what the French have done.