To think if you vote Tory now…

[Joanna1988124]

You’re effectively propping up this absolute shit show of a government and have no empathy.

I’ll be honest, I’ve voted conservative before as a middle class family their (taxation) policies have suited me more than Labour. I honestly feel ashamed of this and I wish I could’ve seen that the conservatives agenda of ‘levelling up’ is BS.

Regardless of your personal situation, enough is enough now right? People are reliant on food banks, they’re choosing between heating and eating. Austerity has been a total nightmare for society causing the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

@Blossomtoes

I may in the future vote conservative

Yet you objected to being described as a Tory voter. 🤷‍♀️

Well i'm not a Tory voter! I've voted in every election in the last 30 years and have never voted Tory.

I may vote Tory on this single issue in the future because this single issue is important.

In reality I live in a Tory area anyway so it makes no odds. A spoiled ballot makes more of a point.

Come the Local Elections and the GE, people will vote accordingly 👍👍

A spoiled ballot makes more of a point

It makes no point at all. Particularly in a stronghold - of either colour.

I have looked at stuff & in truth I would prefer Boris not being PM - but on the other hand I have seen the conservatives giving people 80% salary on furlough . - surely that was a good thing. ?

Yes the energy bills are going up - there is no magic money tree. I wish we could have one. Personally I wish we could tax the likes of Amazon / the coffee shops a great deal more I think the slight problem is that these companies employ people . I have read that shutting down CFC ( because Abramovich ) has lost many poeple their jobs even though his bank is frozen

@Blossomtoes

A spoiled ballot makes more of a point

It makes no point at all. Particularly in a stronghold - of either colour.

Agreed. No more than a cursory glance is given to most reasons recorded and your basically leaving the interpretation of your reason for abstaining up to politicians.

& yes a spoilt ballot is like pissing against the wall - doesn't make a blind bit of difference. Vote for someone or not. Your spoiled ballot will go straight into the bin .

@Cornettoninja - agree - a spoilt ballot I reckon you might as well stay at home

Yes the energy bills are going up - there is no magic money tree

Yes there is, it’s us.

For example take a look at the percentage of tax paid on fuel and then maybe a look at the profits of the fuel companies.

@TeenPlusCat

I think anyone who makes generalisations about people based on who they vote for is doing a disservice to open debate.

Politics is nuanced. People look at parties and policies and make decisions based on the balance and how important individual aspects are to them personally.

People can dislike Boris and think he is a self serving opportunist, but still think that the Conservatives will be better because xyz.
Just like people can think that Labour policies are on average better but still choose not to vote for them because of abc.

I would imagine pretty much everyone agrees that the Downing Street lockdown parties were a total disgrace. But that on its own is not necessarily a reason to not vote Conservative.

Balance. Nuance. Weighing up priorities. Not name calling.

@TeenPlusCat this is most intelligent and sensible post on this entire thread.

Up to you if you feel that way about people who vote differently to you. Especially since the last election had the result it did that’s a fair amount of people you hold hate in your mind for.

I don't feel that way about everyone who votes differently from me, just those who vote Tory.

I’d say you were wrong of course but angry intolerant people exist in all walks of life and the level of intolerance from the left is apparent.

Your right I am angry at and I am intolerant of the tories and those that keep them in power. It's hard not to be when you see the real impact on people on the receiving end of their policies. Such as the 15 year old girl with complex needs, who regularly soils herself in class, but because of cuts is kept in the mainstream (despite the desperate pleas from teachers and family). Or the 12 year old boy, who's behaviour has deteriorated massively over the last two years because he eventuall reveals (after a breaksdown in school) thag his mum has been pimping him out since the first lockdown. Or not being able to speak to one friend every again because they hung themselves when they fell through the furlough cracks and couldn't support their family. Or another because their potentially life saving cancer treatment was postponed again and again until it was too late, leaving behind two devastated u10s.

I'm sure you'll come back with something like "there were issues under labour" and there of course were issues, but everyone I speak to and see says the same. It's far worse now than they ever remember it and that's from people with 20, 30, 40+ years experience.

The aggression and abuse is mostly from your direction.

Yes, those in ivory towers don't tend to show much aggression towards those they consider below them, the don't tend to think of them at all actually. On the odd occasion they do enter their minds they tend to throw contempt and pity their way instead

[quote LexMitior]@MangyInseam - they are in power. Now why have the Conservatives not changed or removed some of the policies they implemented or permitted during the last ten years?

You are really giving the Government a huge benefit by ignoring that they made this mess in the first place and have not actually done anything yet to sort it out.[/quote]
Have you been following this particular issue? It's been changing constantly.

Initially most people supported a lot of the thinking around gender, and then there was a long time when even very mild criticisms or even questions were suppressed.

Most MPs seem to have been in much the same situation as the rest of the public, really unaware of what activists were saying or doing, and in many cases completely unaware that there was any disagreement. And that was very deliberate, activists deliberatly acted in such a way as to avoid that kind of attention by flying under the radar and getting at various government, non-governmental, and arms length institutions. Like prisons. Like the police. Like schools.

Contrary to what some seem to believe, these kinds of institutions are not directly controlled in these kinds of details by ministers or even by the senior civil servants that advise the ministers. Schools trying to update their curricula or choosing books for their libraries or updating their equalities policies are not asking MPs or the ministers for education how to go about it. They have their own employers or advisory groups or are asking for groups like SW to advise them.

It's only in the past two years that there has been more and more public discussion apparent, and in the last year that it's become really open, and in the last few months that it has begun to be addressed at the highest levels politically. And really only in the week that the Tories have finally made a fairly decisive statement after the UN judgement came back. There's been no time to sort it out yet and I daresay it will be at least a year before a lot of it is untangled. But we are beginning to see some action.

There are several posters on this thread who keep saying again and again that the Conservatives should have done something years ago, and they know darn well what the timeline is because every time it is pointed out to them. Up until now it's been Labour like a bulldog on gender issues, with the Conservatives at first for it and later somewhat on the fence with a variety of opinions (unlike Labour who didn't really allow that.) It's only now that there has been a decisive statement.

@Thebestwaytoscareatory

Up to you if you feel that way about people who vote differently to you. Especially since the last election had the result it did that’s a fair amount of people you hold hate in your mind for.

I don't feel that way about everyone who votes differently from me, just those who vote Tory.

I’d say you were wrong of course but angry intolerant people exist in all walks of life and the level of intolerance from the left is apparent.

Your right I am angry at and I am intolerant of the tories and those that keep them in power. It's hard not to be when you see the real impact on people on the receiving end of their policies. Such as the 15 year old girl with complex needs, who regularly soils herself in class, but because of cuts is kept in the mainstream (despite the desperate pleas from teachers and family). Or the 12 year old boy, who's behaviour has deteriorated massively over the last two years because he eventuall reveals (after a breaksdown in school) thag his mum has been pimping him out since the first lockdown. Or not being able to speak to one friend every again because they hung themselves when they fell through the furlough cracks and couldn't support their family. Or another because their potentially life saving cancer treatment was postponed again and again until it was too late, leaving behind two devastated u10s.

I'm sure you'll come back with something like "there were issues under labour" and there of course were issues, but everyone I speak to and see says the same. It's far worse now than they ever remember it and that's from people with 20, 30, 40+ years experience.

The aggression and abuse is mostly from your direction.

Yes, those in ivory towers don't tend to show much aggression towards those they consider below them, the don't tend to think of them at all actually. On the odd occasion they do enter their minds they tend to throw contempt and pity their way instead

Do you really think Labour would have kept things more open during covid? That hasn't been the pattern of progressive governments in other countries at all, quite the opposite.

@Thebestwaytoscareatory

Up to you if you feel that way about people who vote differently to you. Especially since the last election had the result it did that’s a fair amount of people you hold hate in your mind for.

I don't feel that way about everyone who votes differently from me, just those who vote Tory.

I’d say you were wrong of course but angry intolerant people exist in all walks of life and the level of intolerance from the left is apparent.

Your right I am angry at and I am intolerant of the tories and those that keep them in power. It's hard not to be when you see the real impact on people on the receiving end of their policies. Such as the 15 year old girl with complex needs, who regularly soils herself in class, but because of cuts is kept in the mainstream (despite the desperate pleas from teachers and family). Or the 12 year old boy, who's behaviour has deteriorated massively over the last two years because he eventuall reveals (after a breaksdown in school) thag his mum has been pimping him out since the first lockdown. Or not being able to speak to one friend every again because they hung themselves when they fell through the furlough cracks and couldn't support their family. Or another because their potentially life saving cancer treatment was postponed again and again until it was too late, leaving behind two devastated u10s.

I'm sure you'll come back with something like "there were issues under labour" and there of course were issues, but everyone I speak to and see says the same. It's far worse now than they ever remember it and that's from people with 20, 30, 40+ years experience.

The aggression and abuse is mostly from your direction.

Yes, those in ivory towers don't tend to show much aggression towards those they consider below them, the don't tend to think of them at all actually. On the odd occasion they do enter their minds they tend to throw contempt and pity their way instead

It is true lockdowns caused a lot of harm. Something I’ve posted a fair bit about. Unfortunately Labour were even more for restrictions and lockdowns and the left generally were ok with thinking about the risk from Covid but not the damage from lockdowns. Which is a huge pity as many were vulnerable to the risks from lockdown.

I hope it never happens again but Labour have been keener to neglect those hurt by them so I’m not seeing much opposition there.

@MangyInseamYes I've seen many opinions but not much policy - which suggests that whatever MPs or the PM say now, its not worth very much.

They actually have the power to do something now - politicians who just speak without a proposal when they are in government are getting something cheap from voters.

You say the statement was decisive, but its a statement. Nothing else.

Next week maybe Keir S says something - who cares? He needs some actual policies, and so do the Conservatives. Both of them are hopeless on this until they show some results.

I was crtainly against all the lockdowns but Labour and the Tories were veyr much in favour, Labour even more so than the Tories. Only 100 Tory Mps ultimately rebelled against some of the latter ones, so hardly anyone at all. This is a middle ground big state, high spending Tory party, unfortunately, not the policies I want but heaps better than Labour.

Also - banging on about the gender issues - saying that it's been under a Conservative gov. is just like saying the economy crashed under labour. These things happened and are happening world wide.

Lots of countries are struggling with the TRAs and reassignment surgery for children. Just like lots of countries struggled with the banking crisis.

@DragonOverTheMoon

Also - banging on about the gender issues - saying that it's been under a Conservative gov. is just like saying the economy crashed under labour. These things happened and are happening world wide.

Lots of countries are struggling with the TRAs and reassignment surgery for children. Just like lots of countries struggled with the banking crisis.

Not a fair comparison. Trans policy is a choice made by politicians based on their thinking.

A government policy is a positive act by politicians. The Tories own this stuff, to their prison policy, schools policy and health policies for trans. All theirs.

It takes officials and Ministers to agree, debate and put them forward. That isn't quite the same as an economic crash where the people who manage the economy are not in government. Ministers react to that, but they don't write proactive policies for their management, or they do, they certainly aren't conservatives.

No it's not. It's world wide ideology from TRAs that have changed womens lives all over. Canada, US, Europe, Iran just to name a few. It's just as global as the financial crash and has real impact to vulnerable women and girls. It has been a tidle wave that engulfed lots of us and it's not just been our country. We don't exist in a vacuum.

@Xenia - I think that was my point also - the Conservatives have spent a whole load of money to keep people jobs afloat. - Are they really dreadful people. The No 10 party is surely just a diversion

Well as I say I would rather read the parties ' manifestos than vote along tribal lines. & to @TeenPlusCat

I would rather read the parties ' manifestos than vote along tribal lines

The Tories have broken at least two of their manifesto promises - they’ve raised tax when they said they wouldn’t and removed the triple lock which they promised to retain. Manifestos mean nothing.

@DragonOverTheMoon

No it's not. It's world wide ideology from TRAs that have changed womens lives all over. Canada, US, Europe, Iran just to name a few. It's just as global as the financial crash and has real impact to vulnerable women and girls. It has been a tidle wave that engulfed lots of us and it's not just been our country. We don't exist in a vacuum.

I'm not saying it doesn't have impact. But I also know that trans policy in the UK is not just coming from nowhere. I expect politicians to have critical thinking skills and given that the policies I have mentioned above have been in place for some time, I would imagine it would be quite easy for a party in power, who has been in power for 10 years, to actually do something.

Or you can be satisfied with a Daily Mail headline, which looks to be all that can happen between now and the next election.

Given no policy change or proposal, do you think its a fair assumption that the PMs statement will lead to a change. Or will global forces prevent that happening?

It is true lockdowns caused a lot of harm. Something I’ve posted a fair bit about. Unfortunately Labour were even more for restrictions and lockdowns and the left generally were ok with thinking about the risk from Covid but not the damage from lockdowns. Which is a huge pity as many were vulnerable to the risks from lockdown.

I hope it never happens again but Labour have been keener to neglect those hurt by them so I’m not seeing much opposition there.

I agree.

With Labour I’m imagining there would have been more lockdowns and even more money handed out because, hey, it’s all good as the average Joe won’t be required to pay anything back, it would all be paid for by higher earners and businesses when they are clobbered with increased tax rates - happy days!

Wouldn’t take a genius to spot the problem there.

@Blossomtoes - I do get your point but both of the larger parties have broken promises

[quote BasiliskStare]@Blossomtoes - I do get your point but both of the larger parties have broken promises[/quote]
How can Labour break manifesto promises when they haven’t won an election for 16 years?

@Blossomtoes - I speak of Blair . So yes - old.