To think if you vote Tory now…

[Joanna1988124]

You’re effectively propping up this absolute shit show of a government and have no empathy.

I’ll be honest, I’ve voted conservative before as a middle class family their (taxation) policies have suited me more than Labour. I honestly feel ashamed of this and I wish I could’ve seen that the conservatives agenda of ‘levelling up’ is BS.

Regardless of your personal situation, enough is enough now right? People are reliant on food banks, they’re choosing between heating and eating. Austerity has been a total nightmare for society causing the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

That's what I did last time.

@lifeturnsonadime

People on this thread are confusing people who can't vote Labour for this single issue of women's rights with 'being Tory Voters'

Rather than castigate those who reasonably believe that Self ID will harm women perhaps consider why this might be.

That's because the title of this thread is AIBU to think that if you vote Tory.... Support and opposition to self ID is cross bench.

@BasiliskStare

And for the avoidance of doubt I have voted Tory ( and also Labour ) But not once ( & I have checked ) have I sold my mother to a glue factory for a few quid - that is just risible & not ( in my opinion ) reasoned debate . I like to think I am not the dregs of society but just think a little more about the arguments and policies & of the parties available - well - that is where you put your X )

I’m glad you checked ;

But yes agree plus central voters who switch surely are key to the landslides

And that comes down to appealing with policies as it’s not based on loyalty

@TooBigForMyBoots

Well at least you've got this straight now. You were blaming the conservatives earlier for bringing in anti women legislation.

I'm sorry if I confused you, I was talking about the anti-woman legislation in the Conservative proposed GRA Reforms of 2016 that brought Self ID to the fore and created a trans shitshow.

It is you who are confused. This is what you posted earlier:

The EHRC guidance only came out last week which clarifies that the EXISTING legislation is not as Stonewall represented.

Stonewall did not draft and implement the existing legistlation, the Conservative party did

if you have been reading anything on this issue you would be perfectly aware that the EHRC guidance was on the Equality Act which you incorrectly attributed to the Conservatives not the GRA.

@the80sweregreat

It'll be women's issues that will win them the next election : disregarding 50 percent of the population will be labour's downfall and if they don't sort this out it'll be curtains for them again. Plus people do not trust them either. Despite everything that's gone on recently. I'm not saying this is right , but it is what it is I don't vote conservative., but I understand why people do and enough people ring lbc radio saying why they will do again as well.

Ultimately I think Labour's problem is simple.

They called women bigots for voicing concerns over self-id and related women's issues. To the point they tried to eject them from the party.

They told people who had different opinions not to vote for them.

They called people who voted Leave bigots, and people who have concerns about things like immigration bigots. Despite the fact that those were normative positions in their core voting block for decades.

Those things are going to be very difficult to come back from. I think the government would actually need to be far worse than they are, and the Labour Party will have to very clearly roll back from those things and maybe even apologize.

Because that approach has made it something other than a matter of balanced pragmatic voting choices for many people. It's very personal and requires a kind of forgiveness that will not be forthcoming if the LP just tries to sit on the fence or pretend it all didn't happen.

I think being left or right and sticking to that tribe will be a thing of the past soon.

I also think most voters, whether left or right, Labour or Tory, want the same things in life and the country. I don't think Labour equals good and Tory equals bad. Such black and white thinking isn't very critical or clever.

The two main parties differ the most economically. Economically I'm with Labour (although I really hate the hyperbole about food banks ect and think with the benefits we have in this country no one is truely poor poor unless they get themselves into loads of debt or have loads of dc on UC or are seeking asylum or having a short term crisis). I say that as someone who was on full income support and tax credits 16 years ago. I now work in Children services). We might now see real poverty with the electricity and gas prices rising. I expect it will go back down by winter.

So the only other real issue to me is the trans debate. Yes the Conservative gov got us in this mess, however they're slso the only ones acknowledging common sense around it and not promising self ID. They aren't leaving their MPs who speak out about it to face death threats from TRAs like Labour.

So whilst I agree economically with labour I am not voting for them unless they do a complete 360 and a huge fuck off apology to the people rightly concerned about trans ideology.

I'm sorry for any confusion, I in no way thought the Equality Act was a Conservative doing. They're not keen on Equality.

@MarshaBradyo yes yes I will read things and vote accordingly - I am not going to to vote just because all family and generations have done it - I will make my own mind up . I suspect I am what you would call a central voter - but my vote my choice. In no way would I ever vote because "it is what our family have always done "

I too judge anyone who votes Tory.

How anyone can vote for a party who lie (fact) and benefit their chums (fact) and who don't give a fuck about the laws they've made (fact) is absolutely beyond me.

You either have to be utterly selfish or utterly stupid. Or both.

@TooBigForMyBoots

I'm sorry for any confusion, I in no way thought the Equality Act was a Conservative doing. They're not keen on Equality.

Whereas the Labour Party promotes equality for everyone so long as they are men.

Yet the Labour Equality Law is what helped women and protected them from the Tory proposed GRA Reform and Self ID.

@Wintersonata

But Labour isn't that party anymore, is it? Probably why the left now hates Starmer more than Johnson and would welcome a tory landslide

I don’t understand this. If Labour supporters hate Starmer because he’s not left wing enough why would they welcome a Tory landslide - which is even less left wing?

Left and right are not what they used to be. Labour have abandoned many of the traditional left policies and ways of thinking, and the Conservatives have picked some up. Both are globalist as much as anything which is neither leftist nor conservative in the traditional sense.

Even a group like Momentum isn't really traditional Labour, they are more like state socialism ( tending in that direction, that is to say) combined with identity politics, which is not the same thing at all.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Yet the Labour Equality Law is what helped women and protected them from the Tory proposed GRA Reform and Self ID.

Yes - because of how it is drafted. The trans policy mess is conservative - though I am totally unimpressed how the Labour Party have grabbed that and made it worse for themselves. Really, they are such fools.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Yet the Labour Equality Law is what helped women and protected them from the Tory proposed GRA Reform and Self ID.

Exactly. Austerity inflicted massive damage on women and children. Nobody seems to give a shit about that.

@Blossomtoes

Our government is no different from any other in that respect

Other countries don’t seem to be inflicting the same economic damage on their citizens. The French haven’t seen their energy bills double.

People everywhere are paying far more for fuel and food than they were. It's not just the UK and not just Europe either.

@BorisJohnsonsHair - I respectfully disagree. unless you have a little more backup to your points. I don't think I am selfish or stupid but have once voted tory. I may vote Labour next time if Keir Starmer were not such a wimp/ with no ideas & indeed against women's rights.

@DragonOverTheMoon

That's because the title of this thread is AIBU to think that if you vote Tory.... Support and opposition to self ID is cross bench.

Well, kind of, but I'm yet to see members of the Tory Party be expelled for believing that women exist.

There may be some conservative support for Self ID but it is not as vociferous as that coming from the front benches of the Labour Party.

I may in the future vote conservative simply to block self ID as women's rights to be classed separately to men and the protection of children from harm is too important to me to ignore.

Once women lose our current legal right to name ourselves and to safe spaces we won't get them back. 'Stonewall Law' has indicated very clearly what the implications of self ID means for vulnerable women No Thank You. It implicates everything not just the vulnerable. Equal Pay, crime stats, funding for women's issues, women's health. If women can't be named they can't have carved out policies for women. That very clearly will suit some factions of society who don't think women matter much.

And as for what it does to children. I've been there already on this thread. I just can't vote for a party that will endorse physically harming children.

A reminder for those who have forgotten what Penny Mordaunt said last year: www.spectator.co.uk/article/penny-mordaunt-is-wrong-to-repeat-the-trans-allies-mantra

@TooBigForMyBoots

Yet the Labour Equality Law is what helped women and protected them from the Tory proposed GRA Reform and Self ID.

Say what? No it hasn't the same lobby group that almost enforced the government to bring in Self ID made sure that the Equality Act has been misrepresented with support from the Labour Party.

I may in the future vote conservative

Yet you objected to being described as a Tory voter. 🤷‍♀️

very much doubt things would be any different if the Labour Party were in power.

I would never judge people for how they vote. Why is it always Labour Voters trying to dictate who people vote for?

Quite frankly they're all awful at the moment.

[quote TooBigForMyBoots]A reminder for those who have forgotten what Penny Mordaunt said last year: www.spectator.co.uk/article/penny-mordaunt-is-wrong-to-repeat-the-trans-allies-mantra[/quote]
Thats a good point - basically I saw one statement from Johnson on this and its certainly not enough to undo the mess that his party created, implemented and supported. There's nothing he's said or shown so far to undo that. Given he's the first PM ever to break the law in office, I don't really take what he says seriously since this is someone who lies to Parliament. Its not a serious thing to him.

However the Labour Party need to wonder why, given they were in opposition, where they needed to have a mainstream policy and appeal to a large demographic, why trans rights were the thing that they thought were significant. Because frankly its a massive vote loser and any decent political adviser would have known that. It suggests that they are really, really political out of it.

[quote TooBigForMyBoots]A reminder for those who have forgotten what Penny Mordaunt said last year: www.spectator.co.uk/article/penny-mordaunt-is-wrong-to-repeat-the-trans-allies-mantra[/quote]
What are you trying to accomplish by posting this stuff? Everyone knows there are Conservatives with a variety of opinions on this, and have changed the majority view over the last years too.

The issue is that Labour has only one allowable position right now, and wants to change it in a particular direction right now, and has a leader who can't make a straight statement right now.

What are you trying to accomplish by posting this stuff?

What stuff? Facts that don’t suit your narrative?

@MangyInseam - they are in power. Now why have the Conservatives not changed or removed some of the policies they implemented or permitted during the last ten years?

You are really giving the Government a huge benefit by ignoring that they made this mess in the first place and have not actually done anything yet to sort it out.