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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if you vote Tory now…

740 replies

Joanna1988124 · 12/04/2022 21:48

You’re effectively propping up this absolute shit show of a government and have no empathy.

I’ll be honest, I’ve voted conservative before as a middle class family their (taxation) policies have suited me more than Labour. I honestly feel ashamed of this and I wish I could’ve seen that the conservatives agenda of ‘levelling up’ is BS.

Regardless of your personal situation, enough is enough now right? People are reliant on food banks, they’re choosing between heating and eating. Austerity has been a total nightmare for society causing the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

OP posts:
CounsellorTroi · 13/04/2022 10:57

He’s too busy taking potshots at the tories.

You do understand that that is his job?

luckylavender · 13/04/2022 10:59

@lifeturnsonadime

I think this thread is astonishing. No one has learnt from Brexit that assuming a faux moral high ground puts the electorate off rather than encourages their vote.

Party Gate is a scandal. But the likes of Starmer, Lammy and Raynor are telling massive lies when they say that being a woman includes people who are not human females.

They deserve what they get when they fail to oust the Conservatives despite the fiascos of the last few years.

I think you'll find if you do some research that Labour are being very careful to define the legal position & the MSM ask stupid questions. If you genuinely think that this Tory government cares about women or families then I need a lie down.
lifeturnsonadime · 13/04/2022 11:05

If you genuinely think that this Tory government cares about women or families then I need a lie down.

I don't.

I'm not sure what people don't understand about my position on this.

The Labour Party has nailed its colours to the mast and WILL destroy women's rights.

I can't vote for a party with that as it's post election policy.

Blossomtoes · 13/04/2022 11:06

@lifeturnsonadime

I have asked several times on this thread for ONE SINGLE coherent Labour Party Policy.

At the moment the Labour Party policy appears to consist of :

  1. Anything is better than Tory Scum.
  2. Women can have penises, and all the harmful anti women consequences from that.

What has the Labour Party actually done to earn my vote?

What will it actually do to make anyone's life any better?

Here you go. Take your pick.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/12/labour-winning-policies-party-keir-starmer-public

Grantanow · 13/04/2022 11:07

Sunak thinks his wife's financial affairs should be private but he requires those on universal credit to fully disclose. One rule for the rich. Another for the poor. I hope he clears off to the States, green card or not. Johnson has to go. The choice of the next government is not easy. Monster Raving Loony, anyone?

DazzlingDarrenDring · 13/04/2022 11:08

[quote lifeturnsonadime]Of course they want you! What a ridiculous statement.

Are you sure about that?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51465800[/quote]
Quite sure.

That link in no way says that women are not wanted as Labour members or voters.

DdraigGoch · 13/04/2022 11:10

I suspect that at the next local elections I'll be voting to keep my existing independent councillors, as it's about local issues not an opinion poll on Westminster (or Cardiff).

A party at Downing Street isn't going to influence my vote in the slightest. It's trivia as far as I'm concerned, not the sort of issue significant enough to outweigh more important matters in a general election.

I'm more concerned about food security, defence and energy generation. On food security, it seems to be the policy of both Whitehall and Cardiff (but worse in the latter) to pay polluters to greenwash their images by turning productive farmland into forestry.

On defence, no party have got a great record (though nothing would be worse than the unilateralist policies espoused by the mercifully former Labour leader).

On energy generation, both main parties have finally backed nuclear power, though the dithering by the Blair government has cost us precious time.

I'm also concerned about public transport and again can't find much to appeal to me. At least Boris has a thing for hard hats and grands projects so we might see some decent rail infrastructure (despite several projects for the North East getting kicked into the long grass).

Women's rights too - Boris has finally come out and supported women's rights to privacy, safety, dignity and fair play. Starmer just appears to be too cowardly to say it out loud. Doesn't do a lot to build respect if he won't say what he really thinks, incoherent legalese won't cut it. Obviously if I was in Crispin Blunt's constituency, I'd definitely be sending my vote elsewhere - fancy defending a child molester.

Who will I vote for? Well in Wales we've had 23 years of Labour-led governments, I'm certainly not voting for that shower. Plaid are out, as they're nationalists. Both of them, plus the Lib Dems and Greens are happy to throw vulnerable women and children under a bus so I can't really vote for any of them. Still, the sitting (Conservative) MS is good, and the (also Conservative) MP seems reasonable (even if he seems to just follow the whip), he's even met with local farmers and is getting assurances from land owners that tenant farmers won't be evicted for yet more forestry. I also have to remember that a Labour government is likely to be one in coalition with the SNP. Something which I'd like to avoid at all costs.

lifeturnsonadime · 13/04/2022 11:11

That link in no way says that women are not wanted as Labour members or voters

You can only possibly interpret that article that way if you share the belief that women who think women don't have penises are transphobic.

Clavinova · 13/04/2022 11:17

Sunak thinks his wife's financial affairs should be private but he requires those on universal credit to fully disclose. One rule for the rich. Another for the poor.

Labour MP Harriet Harman agrees with him here;

'People's tax affairs [are] a private matter.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1256169/Harriet-Harman-refuses-answer-questions-Labours-major-funders.html

FOJN · 13/04/2022 11:20

The problem we have now is that a majority of Mumsnetters have been bought and paid for, by a line about women and penises from a unrepentant misogynist.

If you genuinely believe that then I can only assume you haven't been paying attention to what's been going on in the Labour Party for the last few years. Women have been investigated, expelled and bullied for acknowledging biological sex and trying to defend women's rights. Johnson's acknowledgement of biological sex is a relief not a statement which has changed my opinion of the conservative party.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2016/09/labour-expelled-me-party-supporting-womens-rights

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/drive-expel-feminists-labour-creating-hostile-environment-women

I could write quite a list of women who were long standing Labour members who have been investigated or expelled from the party. In one case a transwomen, who acknowledges biological sex, was investigated, I can't remember if he (the stated preferred pronouns of the person I'm referring to) was eventually expelled or resigned his membership in disgust.

DustyOwl · 13/04/2022 11:23

I think the point is being missed. It's not what he did that is the real problem. He's proven himself, and his close colleagues, to be lying, cheating people who break the law. The first ever British Prime minister to be charged with a criminal offence.
Britain was up in arms when Trump did it. We now have a Prime Minister who thinks he is above the law and doesn't care about his own actions. He has no problems with bare faces lying.
Yes we stretched the rules (some of us). Yes the Ukraine is a terrible international tragedy. Yes it was a long time ago. He lied, many many times about it. He has no morals and he is just trying to get away with it, by using the Ukraine as a distraction.
He has to go.

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/04/2022 11:29

There is no social conscious in a policy that incarcerates women with male rapists.

How many men were in women's prisons when Labour left power? How many men are in women's prisons after 12 years of Conservative rule @lifeturnsonadime?

DustyOwl · 13/04/2022 11:29

He is a populist minister, who is saying whatever he needs to, to stay in power. I don't for a second believe he gives a crap about the trans issue, not really. He's been told it is an issue which will get him votes and is in direct opposition against the very unpopular Labour stance (which, by the way I also don't agree with) but my opinions is not really the point here.

lifeturnsonadime · 13/04/2022 11:37

How many men were in women's prisons when Labour left power? How many men are in women's prisons after 12 years of Conservative rule @lifeturnsonadime?

Sick of repeating myself on this point.

Tory Government allowed a Lobby Group to misrepresent the Equality Act. Tory Government now recognises this and the EHRC has now formally stated that single sex spaces are reserved by existing legislation. This needs to now be properly enforced AT LAW.

The Labour Party has stated that AS POLICY it will incarcerate Trans Women, with women.

ChocolateDeficitDisorder · 13/04/2022 11:40

Most people in England don't want Scotland or Northern Ireland to leave the UK.

People in Scotland and NI didn't want to leave the EU. Did that matter to the people of England?

MojoMoon · 13/04/2022 11:42

People who think Boris is doing a good job with the Ukraine crisis.

Why? What has he done?

Does it not concern you that the Tories have taken millions of pounds of donations from Putin linked Russians? Why do you think those donations were made?
Why have the Tories dragged their feet on requiring the actual owners of properties to be public information? Cameron put the idea forward and then it was squashed - they say they will now do it due to Ukraine crisis. What was stopping them before?

Cornettoninja · 13/04/2022 11:42

@ChocolateDeficitDisorder

Most people in England don't want Scotland or Northern Ireland to leave the UK.

People in Scotland and NI didn't want to leave the EU. Did that matter to the people of England?

Depends who you ask doesn’t it? 48/52 was hardly a landslide victory of leavers was it?
TooBigForMyBoots · 13/04/2022 11:55

Right, so the Conservatives have actually incarcerated rapists in women's prisons. Labour haven't.

PM Johnson lied to the country to bring us Brexit.
PM Johnson lied to the Queen to suspend parliament.
PM Johnson lied about expenses.
PM Johnson lied about partying.
PM Johnson refused to say that only women have a cervix a week after KS did the same.
PM Johnson commended Jamie Wallis for his bravery last week after he came out as Britains first trans MP (ignoring the law breaking mentioned in the coming out statement ).

This Conservative government swing back and forth on this, they turn on a sixpence and are proven liars, but you believe that they're telling the truth this time? More fool you.

Step1234 · 13/04/2022 11:55

*I’ll be honest, I’ve voted conservative before as a middle class family their (taxation) policies have suited me more than Labour. I honestly feel ashamed of this and I wish I could’ve seen that the conservatives agenda of ‘levelling up’ is BS.

Regardless of your personal situation, enough is enough now right? People are reliant on food banks, they’re choosing between heating and eating. Austerity has been a total nightmare for society causing the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer*

Id be a bit embarrassed posting this if i was that much of a hypocrite tbh. They're fine while they suit you but now they're coming for the middle classes, now we shouldn't vote for them.

Clavinova · 13/04/2022 11:56

It baffles me that people rate Keir Starmer. When he first took over the labour leadership I thought he might have something about him, but he’s such a drip.

Maybe if you listened to him you'd hear what he has to say.

Keir Starmer was a 'drip' when Luciana Berger was being bullied by the Liverpool Wavertree constituency branch in 2019. Tom Watson called for the Wavertree branch to be suspended, but Starmer disagreed. Starmer's wife is Jewish and the family attend a liberal synagogue in London and yet he couldn't steel himself to upset Jeremy Corbyn at the time. Despite the headline of the article Starmer gives feeble answers here:

When asked if he agreed with Dame Margaret, Sir Keir said he was “not in a position to say”.

He also said he did not believe the Liverpool Wavertree constituency party should be suspended following the withdrawal of no-confidence motions against its MP Luciana Berger.

When asked about the JC’s revelation that the local party chairman Dr Alex Scott-Samuel had regularly appeared on a current affairs programme broadcast by conspiracy theorist David Icke, Sir Keir replied, “I don’t know the details of that.”

Wes Streeting was better -

MP Wes Streeting said: “I find it distressing Jewish members are leaving Labour while people who perpetrate abuse against them are told they can stay.”

www.thejc.com/news/uk/labour-is-too-slow-to-expel-antisemites-keir-starmer-says-1.479980

Cornettoninja · 13/04/2022 12:00

To add to @MojoMoon’e post let’s examine the Ukraine situation a bit more shall we?

What has the UK’s role been so far? We’ve sanctioned oligarchs (an embarrassing number to have had in the first place), we’ve bodged taking in refugees causing more distress and uncertainty - the public have done their bit and volunteered places for them to stay, we’ve sent supplies, our PM rocked up in kyiv for a photo shoot and he’s attended international debates where his presence has caused barely a whimper.

The UK’s place in the world has shrunk, we’re just not relevant, there is nothing ground breaking that has been fronted by BJ. Whether Boris has hastened this or is just deluded is debatable but it’s a fact that globally his reputation precedes him. If Putin considers Boris at all it’s not more than an irritation, one easily migrated by pointing to the indisputable fact that he is a lawbreaker and lied about it.

Boris has no high ground to lead from and that leaves the UK vulnerable on many, many levels. Even a dyed in the wool Tory must see that, justifying it must take a lot of energy that wouldn’t be required if they had someone in place that was actually defensible.

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/04/2022 12:05

Baaa baaaa Baaa but Laaabooouuurrr🐑

MarshaBradyo · 13/04/2022 12:13

@Cornettoninja

To add to *@MojoMoon*’e post let’s examine the Ukraine situation a bit more shall we?

What has the UK’s role been so far? We’ve sanctioned oligarchs (an embarrassing number to have had in the first place), we’ve bodged taking in refugees causing more distress and uncertainty - the public have done their bit and volunteered places for them to stay, we’ve sent supplies, our PM rocked up in kyiv for a photo shoot and he’s attended international debates where his presence has caused barely a whimper.

The UK’s place in the world has shrunk, we’re just not relevant, there is nothing ground breaking that has been fronted by BJ. Whether Boris has hastened this or is just deluded is debatable but it’s a fact that globally his reputation precedes him. If Putin considers Boris at all it’s not more than an irritation, one easily migrated by pointing to the indisputable fact that he is a lawbreaker and lied about it.

Boris has no high ground to lead from and that leaves the UK vulnerable on many, many levels. Even a dyed in the wool Tory must see that, justifying it must take a lot of energy that wouldn’t be required if they had someone in place that was actually defensible.

I thought a lot of the more positive reaction was coming from people there?

I’ve heard it a fair bit with U.K. mentioned highly.

I think we are relevant tbh in this

Clavinova · 13/04/2022 12:13

Does it not concern you that the Tories have taken millions of pounds of donations from Putin linked Russians? Why do you think those donations were made?

One of the most generous Tory donors wrote this article for the Guardian in 2015;

Britain should arm Ukraine, says Tory donor.

Former Ukrainian businessman argues that Cameron and Obama should send weapons and ammunition to support the government in Kiev...
So when Putin retorts that “no one needs a conflict on the periphery of Europe”, he is not speaking for himself. We cannot, and must not, believe a single word he says.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/11/britain-should-arm-ukraine

Meanwhile, Seumas Milne, Labour's Executive Director of Strategy and Communications October 2015 - April 2020 was spotted here;

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298550/Red-handed-Photograph-shows-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-pro-Kremlin-spin-chief-held-Putin-s-iron-grip-propaganda-summit.html

‘There is not the slightest evidence the Soviet Union ever intended to attack.’ (Seumas Milne 2014).
‘There certainly has been military expansionism. But it has come from Nato, not Moscow.’ (Seumas Milne 2015).

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/04/2022 12:16

When did PM Johnson give an oligarch a seat in the House of Lords @Clavinova?