Mum spanked DD whilst I'm in hospital

[wantthisbabyout]

Currently in hospital after my c-section apologies if this is all over the place as I'm half asleep!

Mum stayed over last night and complained this morning that she hadn't slept all night. We left at 6:45 this morning and she was up. She also said yesterday that she wishes my kids were "normal"

I FaceTimed her today with the kids and DD was upset saying grandma hurt me and my mum said oh it's ok it was only a little spank on the hand as she hasn't been listening.

My DD is the sweetest little girl ever, yes she is very stubborn but you just need to have patience with her.

AIBU to feel like my mum has just lost her temper and probably felt a bit angry and spanked her? I feel so upset about anyone touching my kids.

DH has just popped home now to get some sleepsuits but I dare not tell him because he will be so angry.

@chaosrabbitland what did I say that’s so controversial? It’s completely illogical to think hitting a defenceless three year old for ‘not listening’ is absolutely fine but hitting a grown adult in the same circumstance, totally outrageous.

Er, because there is a difference between an ADULT, and a child.

As I have said. A few times now! Question answered at least 3 times. You either don't bother to read, or are trying to twist my words. Either way, I'm not playing. An adult, and a child, are completely different. Anyone with basic IQ knows this.

Indeed, @HangingRock25 . Children are smaller than you, and more vulnerable, and rather less likely to have the resources to get you charged with assault. That's what the difference is. Not the most creditable reason for hitting them, is it?

I don't think you need to villainise your dm over this or catastrophise the situation but nor was it in any way acceptable. Grandparents should be amongst the people your child completely trusts not to hurt them. My grandad was awful to my dad and my grandma and they both took regular beatings from him from what I've been told However he never would've laid a hand on me and was the gentlest, kindest man ever to me. I think you need to let your mum know that it needs to never happen again and IF it does then that's the point you don't allow unsupervised care. I think as well though could this generally be a sign that your expecting too much of her? We don't all have grandparents to rely on for childcare and we have to accept that. Perhaps she'll be a more effective grandmother if she's not being leaned on as a babysitter. I know it's hard in this day and age when we all work so much etc but it is what it is. My 4YO has not had any overnight stays or babysitting other than her nursery since lockdown. It's hard but it's basically what you sign up for. Congrats on your new arrival. Hope you can get home soon and enjoy the new arrival.

Er, because there is a difference between an ADULT, and a child

@HangingRock25 yes they are different. Children are more vulnerable to being harmed and have less capacity to defend themselves. They deserve more protection from violence, not less.

If it was a spank on the hand that is a long way from child abuse / beating. I would tell your Mum you don't want her to physically punish the children.
It's probably a long time since your mum had to care for kids all day and she found is wearing (small children are wearing) and lost her cool. Its not an excuse but it happened.
Your child would be more upset not seeing her granny again than by this single smack on the hand.
My parents flatly refuse to look after our kids as they are now in their 80s and they found my nephews in their 70s exhausting (and they were!).

[quote Fadeout83]@chaosrabbitland there is a difference between one or two smacks in your childhood and it being used as a consistent discipline method which my parents did. And what I believe some are talking about in this thread. I love my parents dearly but it saddens me to see the guilt they feel for their way of discipline now. I also grew up fearing them and in turn not really trusting them with a lot of myself, which resulted in a fair bit of distance between us. Your mileage may vary of course but there are many many kids out there who were raised on corporal punishment and feel the way I feel. Flippantly saying it’s a minority issue is BS and avoidance of the issue.[/quote]
my experiance is different as im i never felt fear of my mum, she would put up with an awful lot of my shenagins , but i do know the point at which not too push it further , i did on those two occasians wind up with a bit of a warm bottom , and was grounded for a week . actually the groundings were worse , back in the 80s kids played outside in the streets until it started to get dark . well at least in hampshire we did and it was torture having to stay in .
it is really a minority issue as look at the responses on here , a whole bunch of pearl clutchers having a blue fit at the thought of a childs hand being smaked for misbehaving , no doubt they would let their kids wreck the house and graffiti on the walls and still insist a timeout method might work !

Oh @choasrabbit you’re going to lose control when I tell you this! I don’t punish mine at all. No punishments ever. I’m also a teacher, and I don’t punish the kids I teach. No graffiti so far.

i dont think you are rational and its rather pointless engaging with you as you have the mantra of a parrot , always repeating same thing , cant reason at all Exactly chaosrabbitland . It is pointless, especially when they make it obvious they're not interested in engaging in good faith with logical, reasonable arguments. And I do mean logical and reasonable - what posters like that don't understand is that the more unhinged and irrational they get, comparing children to adults or cats, the more they own goal themselves - and there is no point continuing a discussion when they sink to such levels of irrationality. They basically prove my point, and actually firm my views. If you cannot argue your position with logic and reason, you've lost and they know it. They have no justification, no argument. Being on this thread has confirmed, and firmed my views.

@chaosrabbitland, when you descend to personal abuse you aren't exactly demonstrating your ability to reason.

I would say mum I am so grateful you looked after the kids, I really am. But we don’t ever smack them so please don’t, even just a tap on the hand is not ok.
If she ever does it again, that’s it. No second chances.

[quote Pumperthepumper]@chaosrabbitland what did I say that’s so controversial? It’s completely illogical to think hitting a defenceless three year old for ‘not listening’ is absolutely fine but hitting a grown adult in the same circumstance, totally outrageous.[/quote]
and again you are really twisting it , a light spank on the hand , same as using all your force to punch or hit ? no its two different things i think you will find , but you are going to say its all the same thing ,
its boring conversing with someone incapable of anything except a one stop argument so im off to do the hovering now , ciao

@chaosrabbitland I disagree. If you actually read the posts properly you see most people aren’t condoning the smacking but they’re also not agreeing with the extreme consequences - ie don’t ever let the grandmother be alone with a child. Far fewer are saying that the smacking is fine full stop. Where is the line drawn in your world? A tap on the wrist is ok. What about a smack on the bum? A snack on the bum with a wooden spoon? A slap across the face? A spank on the bum with a belt? A spank with a hairbrush? A shove into the wall? Where does it become not ok? Because for some people all those are ok methods of disciplining children and they wouldn’t consider it abuse.

My view, which I expressed way back, is to have a simple chat to grandma and say it’s not your preferred method of discipline. End of story.

She gave a small slap on her hand because she lost patience not 'spanked'. Way too emotive language. Your DM you say was a good patient mother, but has got less patient with age. Maybe she's tired of looking after grandchildren or is fed up entertaining children now and wants to enjoy her own life? Does she work? If so she's probably tired. Adult children don't seem to realise their parents may actually want a life of their own.

Speak to your mum and explain you don't want her to chastise your kids ever, then make alternative arrangements to look after your own children. Frankly your DM was sleep deprived, anxious about your operation, looking after a feisty toddler and you complained about a minor incident?

[quote Fadeout83]@chaosrabbitland I disagree. If you actually read the posts properly you see most people aren’t condoning the smacking but they’re also not agreeing with the extreme consequences - ie don’t ever let the grandmother be alone with a child. Far fewer are saying that the smacking is fine full stop. Where is the line drawn in your world? A tap on the wrist is ok. What about a smack on the bum? A snack on the bum with a wooden spoon? A slap across the face? A spank on the bum with a belt? A spank with a hairbrush? A shove into the wall? Where does it become not ok? Because for some people all those are ok methods of disciplining children and they wouldn’t consider it abuse.

My view, which I expressed way back, is to have a simple chat to grandma and say it’s not your preferred method of discipline. End of story.[/quote]
Absolutely agree.

@HangingRock25

i dont think you are rational and its rather pointless engaging with you as you have the mantra of a parrot , always repeating same thing , cant reason at all Exactly chaosrabbitland . It is pointless, especially when they make it obvious they're not interested in engaging in good faith with logical, reasonable arguments. And I do mean logical and reasonable - what posters like that don't understand is that the more unhinged and irrational they get, comparing children to adults or cats, the more they own goal themselves - and there is no point continuing a discussion when they sink to such levels of irrationality. They basically prove my point, and actually firm my views. If you cannot argue your position with logic and reason, you've lost and they know it. They have no justification, no argument. Being on this thread has confirmed, and firmed my views.

Can you smack your cat in Australia?

What does ‘firmed my views’ mean, you’re going to hit your kids more on the back of this thread? That’s not rational.

it is really a minority issue as look at the responses on here , a whole bunch of pearl clutchers having a blue fit at the thought of a childs hand being smaked for misbehaving , no doubt they would let their kids wreck the house and graffiti on the walls and still insist a timeout method might work

This is rather typical of the wild generalisations used by corporal punishment proponents. I never used smacking but managed to bring up three children who never wrecked the house or put graffiti on the walls and have become delightful adults. They weren't angels, but they responded fine to sensible discipline methods.

My point has been proven, I rest my case.

How sad and difficult all round. It sounds as though your mum is no longer capable of taking care of your child so I think that's the end of that. I think you do need to tell your DH. I think how you communicte both those things is going to depend on the outcome you want about contact with your Mum. I know this is a MN trope but do you think your Mum might be beginning dementia or similar? One of the first signs can be a loss of self control....saying things that they would normally only think or failing to regulate behaviour especially under stress. If she has previously been fine with your daughter then this may be the reason she wasn't. Its what made us suspect that my mum had had a small stroke in fact when she was seen in hospital they found three areas of damage in her brain.

@HangingRock25

i dont think you are rational and its rather pointless engaging with you as you have the mantra of a parrot , always repeating same thing , cant reason at all Exactly chaosrabbitland . It is pointless, especially when they make it obvious they're not interested in engaging in good faith with logical, reasonable arguments. And I do mean logical and reasonable - what posters like that don't understand is that the more unhinged and irrational they get, comparing children to adults or cats, the more they own goal themselves - and there is no point continuing a discussion when they sink to such levels of irrationality. They basically prove my point, and actually firm my views. If you cannot argue your position with logic and reason, you've lost and they know it. They have no justification, no argument. Being on this thread has confirmed, and firmed my views.

But you haven't produced any reason why it's OK to hit children but not OK to hit adults other than "because they're different" - which isn't a logical reason at all. By the same token disabled people or adults with dementia are different, but we certainly wouldn't think it OK to hit them.

I think you should all stop feeding this now. People are laughing at the responses.

and again you are really twisting it , a light spank on the hand , same as using all your force to punch or hit ? no its two different things i think you will find , but you are going to say its all the same thing

Perhaps, therefore, @chaosrabbitland, you can explain whether it's OK to give an adult a "light spank on the hand", and if not, why not?

But you haven't produced any reason why it's OK to hit children but not OK to hit adults other than "because they're different" - which isn't a logical reason at all. By the same token disabled people or adults with dementia are different, but we certainly wouldn't think it OK to hit them.

They have no reason. They just think the easiest way to get a child to cooperate is to make them fear the consequences because they know misbehaving = hurt. It’s far more difficult and takes more effort to explain and teach and exercise patience. Lazy parenting really. Gives them more time to sip their lattes in peace this way. Children best seen and not heard.

@HangingRock25

My point has been proven, I rest my case.

You would lose your case in any form of tribunal, because you haven't managed to answer basic questions about it.

@BellaVita

MIL did this to DS1 about 20 years ago now.

I had taken the boys to visit as their cousins were visiting from abroad. The children were sat around a make shift table in the sitting room having lunch and really just having a giggle with each other, we were in the dining room with the doors open to the sitting room and I saw her do it out of the corner of my eye. I said to SIL did I really just see her smack the children and she said yes you did - that's been happening all of the time I have been staying but I cannot say anything as I need somewhere to stay when we come and visit.

We left soon after and when DH came home from work I told him what had happened as I wasn't sure if I was over reacting, but he agreed and said it wasn't acceptable and he would speak to his mum about it and the following day he called on his way home from work.

When he broached the subject with his mum, she told him to leave and "never bring those boys back again".

All of his sisters (childless) bar the one who was visiting from abroad with her two children who were more or less the same age as ours - so around 3 and 5 years old sided with MIL and said we had accused MIL of being a child abuser.

We were never spoken to again. MIL passed away about 3 years ago. Since then it has come to light that DH isn't actually the oldest child and he actually has a half brother who she gave away at around a year old to her married lover.

Well, I would consider anyone who abused a child to be a child abuser, so she's guilty of the accusation, surely.

Anyway, it's a shame the abusive bitch didn't cark it a lot sooner.

@Fadeout83

But you haven't produced any reason why it's OK to hit children but not OK to hit adults other than "because they're different" - which isn't a logical reason at all. By the same token disabled people or adults with dementia are different, but we certainly wouldn't think it OK to hit them.

They have no reason. They just think the easiest way to get a child to cooperate is to make them fear the consequences because they know misbehaving = hurt. It’s far more difficult and takes more effort to explain and teach and exercise patience. Lazy parenting really. Gives them more time to sip their lattes in peace this way. Children best seen and not heard.

Also, they're always so coy about the hitting. They say things like 'lightly tap' - which is bollocks, because in order for it to be a deterrent it has to hurt. Hurting them is the whole point. But there's a fine line, because if you bruise them people will know you're a shit parent. And that's the shameful part.