To think most ‘Mum guilt’ is perpetuated by incompetent dads

[TeaAndBrie]

So we’re going on a short European break for the weekend, me and 5 friends. We’ve not all been together for 8 years. We’re going to celebrate joint big birthdays.
The amount of stuff that some of them is doing before they go to make things easier for the dads of their children is just bonkers. Meal planning and prepping, food shopping, cleaning, washing, arranging play dates, organising parents to help etc.
Most of their husbands go away often for work/golfing weekends. You can guarantee they’re not afforded the same preparation or having to deal with children in years as they’re going to miss mummy too much!

I have a friend who cant leave her kids alone with her husband for any length of time because they won't settle for him. He cant be trusted

So she cant ever have an evening out. Whats the worst that happens? He has a crappy few hours!

I take some delight in leaving no instructions, prepped meals, clothes out etc. I might, at a push, highlight planned activities so that nothing is missed.

I've had a call once 'what should I feed the kids?' My answer 'anything they'd normally eat.'

He's not asked again. And I don't ask when I get back, he does it his way and I don't need to know the detail.

YANBU.
I don’t believe it’s just “martyrdom” either. It’s usually a mix of that and feigned incompetence from the partner.

I don't like anyone else running the house so I do all of this if I'm going away for a weekend

Ironed clothes. Washes all sorted and up to date. Allocated outfits for DC. Pjs sorted.

Just don't want anyone else messing with my household routine

I would leave nappies, baby wipes, clothes and calpol everything in sight as my DH is literally one of those types who will call every 5 seconds asking where things are, even his own things. But I wouldn't interfere with food and activities or routines because he knows. It's ok to feed my toddler take out, ice cream and shit for a couple of days. No one will die. When I come home though, the house will be a mess which is annoying but I know they have a great time together especially with the videos he sends. I don't know what it is but every time they hangout together, he always finds something interesting and amusing to do.

This is just a thread slagging off the friends you are about to go away with. Nice!

@ComtesseDeSpair

I don’t disagree in part; but some of what you describe is also martyrdom. In all likelihood the dads would muddle through a long weekend just fine without the planning and instructions, and the children wouldn’t be irretrievably damaged from no play dates for a few days.

Surely that’s the point though, they would ‘muddle along’ - why just muddle? Why no play dates?

I agree with you.
At most I will get some food on our usual weekly shop to cover the time I’m away, as I’m shopping anyway and I will choose some outfits so my kids go out looking coordinated.

I returned to work when my children were 3 months old and basically left and said have a nice day, dh covered it from there.

I’m also not a fan of the martyrdom theory - you’re only ever a martyr if you choose not to allow your kid to go without when the other parent won’t provide it. It’s misogyny in a new coat.

I met a friend for lunch today, and she was in tears due to comments made by some of the mums at her daughter's nursery. She has just been on a 2 day business trip to Italy, and her kid was with her husband (yes, the OTHER PARENT, THE ONE SHE SHARES 50% OF HER GENES WITH, NOT A STRANGER). These vicious women were saying ahhh poor thing, how can you leave her? Yet her husband went on a week's skiing holiday earlier in the year?

Surely that’s the point though, they would ‘muddle along’ - why just muddle? Why no play dates?

What’s wrong with just muddling?? I’m a mum and ‘muddle through’ plenty of weekends. We just do what we want when we want, kids watch tv, play with their toys, we walk the dog, go to the park, that kind of thing. We just enjoy each other’s company and have a laugh together doing simple and ordinary things. What’s wrong with an ordinary weekend that’s not scheduled to the nines? What terrible thing will happen if a play date doesn’t take place?

So many woman infantile their husbands, instead of just expecting them to parent

I think a lot of the prep these mothers are doing could be with regards to their return ie. the cleaning, perhaps they know their OH is unlikely to clear up and clean as he goes so they’re getting as organised as poss in advance.

I only really know one mum who would actually do this, and she definitely falls into the martyr category. Her OH wasn't incompetent, she just had to have things done just so. The couple split when their kids were small, in part because she was so controlling. For everyone else, I presume their partners manage just fine looking after their kids solo, as I've never had this come up as a "thing" in my circle of friends. I hear about lots of incompetent dads on MN, but not so many irl.

I could leave at the drop of a hat, and DH and the kids would be fine, once we were no longer breastfeeding. He's a better cook, always has tabs on extra curriculars and school. The only things he's not better at is saying 'no' as required, and realising which shade of pink clashes with another. Entirely forgivable, and not life threatening.

And if I'd been away for a few days, I would expect a bit of mess on my return, because my OH would have been be parenting and doing all the household tasks solo, when usually it's a joint endeavour. Are the women who would be pissed off about a bit more mess than usual used to doing absolutely everything alone when they're at home, so when they're away it's the OH's "turn"? If so I can see their point, but as I'm usually sharing tasks with my OH, I'd just be happy to have the time away from my share of it, and deal with the mess as an acceptable price to pay!

@EV117

Surely that’s the point though, they would ‘muddle along’ - why just muddle? Why no play dates?

What’s wrong with just muddling?? I’m a mum and ‘muddle through’ plenty of weekends. We just do what we want when we want, kids watch tv, play with their toys, we walk the dog, go to the park, that kind of thing. We just enjoy each other’s company and have a laugh together doing simple and ordinary things. What’s wrong with an ordinary weekend that’s not scheduled to the nines? What terrible thing will happen if a play date doesn’t take place?

My point is, why does a weekend alone with dad automatically mean a drop in standards?

@ivykaty44

So many woman infantile their husbands, instead of just expecting them to parent

So many men infantilise themselves.

@ComtesseDeSpair

I don’t disagree in part; but some of what you describe is also martyrdom. In all likelihood the dads would muddle through a long weekend just fine without the planning and instructions, and the children wouldn’t be irretrievably damaged from no play dates for a few days.

This. Many women are generally much too fussy. Many men are generally not fussy at all. So mums want their kids to have home-cooked food. The dad will think "hurrah, excuse to go to McDonalds" (or similar).

Martyrdom is sadly a characteristic of many women. I don't know why we are conditioned to be like that.

So many men infantilise themselves.

any surrounding woman don't have to put up with it

@ivykaty44

So many men infantilise themselves.

any surrounding woman don't have to put up with it

But then the children suffer. So you're either a martyr for doing it all, or a martyr for putting up with it. Like I said, misogyny regardless.

@yestothepest

I don't like anyone else running the house so I do all of this if I'm going away for a weekend

Ironed clothes. Washes all sorted and up to date. Allocated outfits for DC. Pjs sorted.

Just don't want anyone else messing with my household routine

@yestothepest

You need to loosen up! Hand over the reins…what’s the worst that could happen?

@ComtesseDeSpair

If your OH is the kind of father who would neglect the DC to the point of them being feral, awake at all hours and wearing filthy clothing, then frankly you need to be separating or divorcing and ensuring he only has supervised contact after that, because he’s both a shit father and a shit partner.

More usually, dads will manage to feed, clothe and entertain their DC perfectly adequately without instructions - just perhaps with the slightly laissez faire approach most men seem to take towards their own life when their OH isn’t around with her “guidance”, and the reasoning that a meal that gets eaten rather than a battle of wills and tears over one that will be barely picked at is the way to go.

I was using hyperbole. But nonetheless, I am not sure I understand why a laissez faire approach is just fine? I mean, sure, it doesn't need to be strict routine and 12 vegetables per meal (more hyperbole to make a point) but there are way too many women married to men who don't seem to see the importance of actual parenting.

And sure, we can argue women shouldn't be with those men in the first place but that's a bit simplistic and doesn't take the massive societal expectations that exist into account - a man taking a laissez faire approach simply doesn't experience the same response as a woman doing the same.

What is “Mum guilt?”

I can’t get out of the house quick enough!