I agree with Boris

[ivykaty44]

trib.al/ov5g0nj I can’t stand the throes but agree with this

It may be a vote winner but it’s just common sense. This is what most people would be thinking so I do think Boris believes this.
The amount of nonsensical thinking that goes into thinking the opposite is just ridiculous. This is why Keir got so flustered and muddled trying to answer a simple question on it.
I just can’t believe this is where we are. That reasonable, sensible, factual thinking is being lauded because it was seen as politically harmful and avoided.

It may be a vote winner but it’s just common sense. This is what most people would be thinking so I do think Boris believes this.

Agreed.

For all the 'Boris is a liar' comments, (perfectly justified based on past performance) it's patently obvious that Boris believes what he's saying and Starmer doesn't.

Mostly because what Starmer is saying is nonsense and he's a smart man, so must appreciate that.

Starmer has had opportunity after opportunity to think about Labour's position on this. I wrote to him about it shortly after he was elected leader of the Labour party.

Since then he has become more entrenched in his views. He has stated that 'it should not be said' that only women have a cervix. He has failed to defend Rosie Duffield. He has presided over a party that has branded women "dinosaurs" for wanting to protect single-sex spaces. He has allowed women to be harassed and bullied for their stance that being a woman is biological reality. He has failed to engage with the very real issues about medicalising children and setting them on a pathway to transition. He supports self-ID - ie anyone who says they are a woman is a woman. Where does that end? What if a 50-year-old man were to claim they were actually a 10-year-old? Would we usher that person into primary schools or children's swimming classes? If not, why not?

Why on earth should I vote for someone who has such a tenuous grasp of science and reality? Or, alternatively, is so in hock to the trans rights activists, that he is too scared to speak up for what is right and obvious?

I'm not impressed by the Conservatives, but why doesn't Labour want my vote? Why is the demolition of women's rights the hill that Starmer is prepared to die on?

what's less clear is the purpose of Starmer's stance

I have family members who are fairly privileged, articulate, London based, work in the Arts and are very anti Tory. They are extremely vocal on the Trans issue (loathe JK but won't read her rebuttal). I'm bewildered by them as it's THE most important issue to them. I think it's this group Starmer is listening to and appeasing.

@Fireflygal

what's less clear is the purpose of Starmer's stance

I have family members who are fairly privileged, articulate, London based, work in the Arts and are very anti Tory. They are extremely vocal on the Trans issue (loathe JK but won't read her rebuttal). I'm bewildered by them as it's THE most important issue to them. I think it's this group Starmer is listening to and appeasing.

Good point. These people are now Labour's key supporters.

As a party, they are completely lost.

Labour will lose so many votes here it’s ridiculous. On every other matter they hit the nail on the head, but here they show that they are so, so wide of the mark. It’s as though they don’t want to actually win an election. I wish Labour would do some focus groups or something and get a grip. Join us all on planet reality!

Just reached out to a male colleague who is a Labour supporter. Asked him not to tell people I had this view because it was too risky. (We have fellow teammates who put pronouns in their email signatures)
He said he had been saying this was a risk to Labour to all his Corbynista mates. And they didn't believe him.
He also said he understood why I wanted to keep our discussion confidential and he would respect that.
This is where we are at.

@Fireflygal

what's less clear is the purpose of Starmer's stance

I have family members who are fairly privileged, articulate, London based, work in the Arts and are very anti Tory. They are extremely vocal on the Trans issue (loathe JK but won't read her rebuttal). I'm bewildered by them as it's THE most important issue to them. I think it's this group Starmer is listening to and appeasing.

We've had a few TWAW people on here the last few days telling us what shitty humans we are if we don't overlook this issue, which they say isn't important, for the greater good

Ask them if they'd be willing to overlook it for the same reasons of greater good, and have Labour regain votes by talking sense, and goodness gracious, wouldn't you just know it...

@Fireflygal

what's less clear is the purpose of Starmer's stance

I have family members who are fairly privileged, articulate, London based, work in the Arts and are very anti Tory. They are extremely vocal on the Trans issue (loathe JK but won't read her rebuttal). I'm bewildered by them as it's THE most important issue to them. I think it's this group Starmer is listening to and appeasing.

They appear to be out of touch with reality.

I'm actually really confused by some of the comments that seem to cite Brexit as a reason to vote for Labour's Self ID policy.

Boris Johnson may have seen which way the 'wind was blowing' when he opted for the Leave Campaign but Labours views were far from clear on the point.

If you use this as a reason to not vote for Johnson on this issue consider that, like Brexit, Self ID will have a permanence. It's not something that once introduced will be easily done away with.

Think about the impact that this will have on women and children. If you are happy with that permanent state of affairs then perhaps Labour is the party for you.

You may not trust Boris Johnson and whether he will actually change his view but that's least worst than actively voting for a party hell -bent on destroying women's rights and a party that is comfortable with allowing children to mutilate their bodies and make themselves infertile.

@DrCoconut

He knows he's losing popularity and will now say anything to gain voters. The man is a habitual liar. I will never ever vote conservative, they are morally repugnant.

Agreed. Thank goodness I'm pretty sure I don't know any women personally prepared to turn Tory on the basis of a soundbite from a proven liar.

Thank goodness I'm pretty sure I don't know any women personally prepared to turn Tory on the basis of a soundbite from a proven liar.

On the back of labours policies you won't be able to tell legally who's a woman and who isn't, so I wonder how they'll all feel when that hits them.

Thank goodness I'm pretty sure I don't know any women personally prepared to turn Tory on the basis of a soundbite from a proven liar.

What's he lying about. He is only saying what the vast majority of the population think and what Keir Starmer, inexplicably, doesn't have to bollocks to come out with.

Thank goodness I'm pretty sure I don't know any women personally prepared to turn Tory on the basis of a soundbite from a proven liar.

When you no longer know what a woman is, you'll be less sure than ever.

@Fireflygal

what's less clear is the purpose of Starmer's stance

I have family members who are fairly privileged, articulate, London based, work in the Arts and are very anti Tory. They are extremely vocal on the Trans issue (loathe JK but won't read her rebuttal). I'm bewildered by them as it's THE most important issue to them. I think it's this group Starmer is listening to and appeasing.

Yes. This would describe many of my peers. Extremely closed minded, but oblivious to the fact. Entrenched in the idea that they are solidly virtuous and anyone who disagrees is a bigot. All running scared of ever stepping out of line.

@Alisae

Yes, a lot of 'what ifs' and hypothetical situations

I’m sorry. Do you think women being raped in prisons and hospital wards is a ‘hypothetical’ situation? The safeguarding of women and children being ignored for mens feelings? Do they not count as vulnerable members of society?

And yes, this snuck in under a Tory government. But they seem to be the only ones waking up to what this ideology means, and the ONLY ones not fully endorsing it.

I was referring specifically to the comment that the of the poster I was replying to. I know what's happening. But so is the crisis of people being unable to heat their homes, and more widely those not in the worst of situations are facing anxiety over paying existing bills and increasing rent.

As I've said and I keep saying, it comes down to priority. My finances and ability to cope are mine. So, again, I don't care what Boris says.

@HarrietPierce7

Johnson has made that statement for political expediency. He doesn't give a flying fuck about the situation but he's realised it maybe a vote winner.

Of course he has. He doesn't give a shit about women - or human beings for that matter. He's a populist and his only concern is what benefits him.

Agreed.
Thank goodness I'm pretty sure I don't know any women personally prepared to turn Tory on the basis of a soundbite from a proven liar

Well Mr Johnson might be a liar but Mr Starmer is telling the bigger lie.

Or do you also believe that women can have penises?

@bellinisurge

Just reached out to a male colleague who is a Labour supporter. Asked him not to tell people I had this view because it was too risky. (We have fellow teammates who put pronouns in their email signatures) He said he had been saying this was a risk to Labour to all his Corbynista mates. And they didn't believe him. He also said he understood why I wanted to keep our discussion confidential and he would respect that. This is where we are at.

@bellinisurge IKR? There are very few people I can trust with what I really think. I've been wondering when we all started self censoring. It was before Brexit, because I remember in the run up to the referendum it was considered unacceptable to even try to discuss the impact of immigration. Gordon Brown's bigoted woman comment in 2010 seems to have been a turning point.

But Starmer is also saying what he thinks will get him the most vote?!!! Unfortunately he seems to be listening to his woke male advisers rather than the general public.

@TheKeatingFive

Yes, a lot of 'what ifs' and hypothetical situations

The defining of women out of existence isn't a hypothetical situation and is the sort of thing that might directly affect you much after the fact.

I'll come back to this when it does directly affect me. Now my increasing energy costs are!

@ilovesooty Yes, keep yourself pure. Don't associate with anyone who might sully your virtue.

A woman was raped in hospital and disbelieved for a year because of gender ideology. It happened. It's not hypothetical. It's happening now.

I'll come back to this when it does directly affect me.

It'll be far too late by then and very difficult to claw back from. The brexit comparison upthread is a very good one.

But you do you.

@Lynnthesearesexnotgenderpeople

Thank goodness I'm pretty sure I don't know any women personally prepared to turn Tory on the basis of a soundbite from a proven liar.

What's he lying about. He is only saying what the vast majority of the population think and what Keir Starmer, inexplicably, doesn't have to bollocks to come out with.

He has a proven track record of lying. I'm not prepared to overlook that and we're living the consequences of his self serving lies. Whatever he says makes no difference to me. I'm concerned by what he has done and anything he says he'll do in future (and he hasn't so far promised anything anyway) has no credibility when set alongside his past record.