Page 5 | Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

Doggirl · 06/04/2022 16:09

Another atheist that isn't particularly bothered here.

My DD6 has been adamant that "God isn't real" since before she started school--not sure how she got that way since DH (agnostic) and I have always been painstaking about not presenting our own beliefs to her as fact.

3 of her 4 best friends have parents who belong to the same, non-Christian religion. I'm trying to imbue in her that she shouldn't dismiss those beliefs to their faces, at the same time as not allowing her own beliefs to be dismissed. Unfortunately DH and I suspect that a couple of the more religious parents do take against overt 'godlessness'.

Noah's Ark with a toddler is easy by comparison!

twentythreehundred · 06/04/2022 16:10

@Ponderingwindow

You have been incredibly naive. These community playgroups are always a form of evangelism. The messaging may be relatively simple, but that is part of the point. Religious entities host these community events to get people in the door and start the indoctrination.

This. These are not the Anglican "simple Bible stories" that are being portrayed here.

Even at 3 Evangelical Christianity will be indoctrination. Of course they will be open to non-believers, the ethos is recruitment of sinners (non-saved by Jesus people)

Beachbreak2411 · 06/04/2022 16:10

It’s a story… not crack

cooldarkroom · 06/04/2022 16:11

I live in a historically Catholic region, but my H isnt practicing, & I am atheist, my parents were technically Baptists but instilled no religion at home. I went to a Convent from 4 - 10 years old as the school was down the road, we had a morning assembly with a hymn etc every day & R.E. for an hour every day.
Then I went to a C of E school, where there was an hour long assembly with a short bible reading & hymn everday, obligatory church on Sundays.
All my kids peers went to Catechism. I though long & hard about it & decided as there is no RE at kids schools here, that I would send my kids too. The reason being, that we are a Christian society, we do Easter, we do Christmas, we sing along to hymns at a funeral, we want are daughters to walk down the isle.
& the 10 commandments are generally good rules to live by

Daffodilz · 06/04/2022 16:11

I'm a Christian and took my children to Church playgroups. Hardly any faith in there mainly play

Daffodilz · 06/04/2022 16:11

Genuinely think Churches do these groups as faith in action

gogohm · 06/04/2022 16:12

I work for a church. Toddler group is open to the whole community without strings however yes we do have a child appropriate bible story some weeks and some of the songs are vaguely religious eg animals go into the ark 2 by 2 but we sing secular songs too.

Most evangelical churches do not baptise infants, they dedicate them, baptism is for only once you understand the commitment. (We are not an evangelical church and many of our toddlers are being baptised, the fact that the best local primary is c of e obviously has nothing to do with it )

I think you can probably overthinking it, if you don't like her choices stop exploiting her for free childcare

ladycarlotta · 06/04/2022 16:12

My 3yo goes to a toddler group like this. They play with the toys, get a snack, have song time, and then there'll be a bible story. I'm actually totally fine with her being exposed to that, they use nice picture books and to her it really is just another story - tbh she won't be introduced to the Bible or Christianity much elsewhere in her life so I'm glad she's being exposed to something outside of her norm.

oatlattetogo · 06/04/2022 16:13

The bible story wouldn’t bother me at all. They’re just stories and lots of children from atheist or agnostic backgrounds attend religious primary schools.

Your MIL’s homophobia and views about non-baptised people going to hell would bother me massively though. I’m not really sure how she can be described as a lovely woman without a bad bone in her body…

ldontWanna · 06/04/2022 16:13

Think about it logically and rationally.

What actual harm can happen to your DS from listening to these stories once a week? How much is he understanding or even remembering? How different are they from a fairy tale, especially since he is being raised in an atheist household?

Do you fear he will become indoctrinated or they'll secretly baptise him?

Once he goes to school he will learn stories from the Bible, the Quoran, Torah. He will learn Hindu and Buddhist stories. Would you have the same objections ?

Exposure to religion is not actually a bad thing. Learning ,knowing and understanding other people's beliefs actually helps breed tolerance and acceptance, plus the majority of the stories aimed at children(from whatever religion) are about kindness,loyalty, helping others, recognising what's important to them,doing charity etc.

Washermother33 · 06/04/2022 16:15

Leave it OP - lots of toddler groups take place in church buildings and have some degree of religious influence . Lots of schools have religious influences , both my children at different secondary schools have to study different religions . Your child will ultimately make their own call on religion - better that it’s an informed decision based on free speech

Musomama1 · 06/04/2022 16:15

@AtheistMama

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

OP honestly I wouldn't worry too much about this.

So lucky you and your DH have a good relationship with her as I have evangelicals in my family and there is animosity and pressure towards those who haven't followed that path. I'd want to keep it that way.

Personally I think it's really harmless and actually just nice stories for your LO. I was brought up going to Sunday school but neither of my parents forced it so it didn't really impact on me.

Because you are both non church goers just one tiny session a week at this stage won't do anything and don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, it's lovely your MiL is doing childcare and you have to accept her rules are at play whilst LO is in her hands.

As she is an evangelical, she will sneak churchy things in! But certainly it's not the worst thing in the world.

Ilostit · 06/04/2022 16:16

We’re not Christian and went to a Christian toddler group. The church does a lot of good in the community - they were teaching good values and I don’t mind the odd bible story!

FavouritePi · 06/04/2022 16:16

My DD said Easter was about Jesus coming back to life this week. She's in a non religious, state school where they're learning about different religions and cultures. DH just said "that's what some people believe and that's fine. Mummy and daddy don't though." It was the same with Christmas, Diwali, etc. I'm sure you will have a lot of these conversations yourself.

Hopefully it's not too full on and you can always go with something like the above. I did often take DD to a group attached to the local, quite liberal church when she was a baby and they never pushed anything but good intentions on us.

That being said, could you go along to see how religious the group is? You're his parents and can say no.

SecondhandTable · 06/04/2022 16:16

Church toddler groups ARE open to anyone, regardless of any Christian elements. They don't ask you for your religion on the door and refuse entry if you're not Christian. I go to 3 regular church playgroups a week with my two kids. I'm Muslim and so are the kids, it's presumably obvious by our names. I've spoken to other Muslims at some of these groups as well as plenty of people who are atheists/of no religion. I grew up going to Church playgroups as a Muslim child, my Muslim mum even helped run one of them for a few years! Don't see the issue here at all. One of the groups we go to does a Bible story, my DD (turning 4 soon) isn't interested and doesn't even listen to it, but I'd have no problem if she did. We talk about religions etc at home sometimes in an age appropriate way, same as I assume all/most families do according to their beliefs (or lack of). I don't understand what harm you think a children's Bible story is going to cause your son, and I don't think it's even remotely fair to be annoyed at your MIL about this when you gave her your permission to take him to the group. I find it really odd that you didn't consider a church playgroup may have some Christian elements to it.

Classicblunder · 06/04/2022 16:16

We are atheists and it reminds me of the time I took my 3 year old to a church playgroup and the organiser said "who's the king of the jungle?", Huge chorus of "Jesus!" Except for my son who said "Lion!"

Itslit · 06/04/2022 16:16

@Ponderingwindow

You have been incredibly naive. These community playgroups are always a form of evangelism. The messaging may be relatively simple, but that is part of the point. Religious entities host these community events to get people in the door and start the indoctrination.

@Ponderingwindow you are absolutely correct. All church community activities are a form of evangelism. That’s why they’re free, often with free refreshments…

Ilovedthe70s · 06/04/2022 16:16

All my kids went to the church playgroup as it was the only one in our village. None of them were indoctrinated and don’t espouse any religion as adults. Bible stories are just stories, same as any other works of fiction.

Quartz2208 · 06/04/2022 16:17

Most church toddler groups have a bible story.

Most children go to a church toddler group - they are fairly cheap and accessible and good for both mother and toddlers

gogohm · 06/04/2022 16:17

By the way one of DD's is religious the other isn't, sane parents, same upbringing - as long as parents allow their child to make their own choices it's fine to introduce them to what is their cultural heritage. Today we did Easter but in a 2 year old appropriate way, the chocolate at the end was popular

RB68 · 06/04/2022 16:18

I was raised Christian but stopped practicing in teens. When I had my DD I chose to go to a Baptist pre-schoolers group for play etc. There were some biblical themes in terms of stories and the toys e.g. an ark but on the whole its not a high pressure convert them environment and I made some good Mum friends even though I wasn't part of the church as such. I really wouldn't let it bother you at this age. If at 12 she is still taking them to church groups might be slightly different

froufroufrou · 06/04/2022 16:18

YABU and evangelical yourself about your cherished atheism.

twentythreehundred · 06/04/2022 16:19

You would need to find out the extent of their particular fundamentalism. At 3, some are learning songs with movement such as "onward Christian soldiers marching off to war, with the cross of Jesus going on before" and the stories can be from the Old Testament- some are fairly brutal and are taught as reality not as interpretations or symbolic. So they could be introducing their ideas of sins (pre-marital sex, alcohol, homosexuality, etc) in a very subtle way through Bible stories.

IAMGE · 06/04/2022 16:19

I’d leave it now but I’d be careful. I go to church but my children will
Always make up their own minds and at the moment I believe the children church here is not what I want.
There is a fine line between indoctrination and learning.
So mine have been to a Hindu temple, a synagogue etc

Rebecca1305 · 06/04/2022 16:20

I wouldn’t like it either I think you should go along one day and check what it’s like.