Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

[AtheistMama]

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

@Ponderingwindow

You have been incredibly naive. These community playgroups are always a form of evangelism. The messaging may be relatively simple, but that is part of the point. Religious entities host these community events to get people in the door and start the indoctrination.

Well, in my experience, they’re incredibly unsuccessful at this! The church I (sometimes!) go to has a playgroup in its church hall in the week and a “Storytelling Service” for young children on Sunday before the main service. They are both packed and have been for years, but this translates into more or less zero of these children ever attending a normal service!

OP - are you planning on taking them out of assembly at school due to your atheism? It’s just the same thing really. As someone said already, it’s part of our culture and at least they’ll know some things about the bible for general knowledge quizzes in the future!

If you don’t believe in it then surely it’s just like reading a story out of any other book?

I'm not religious and took my 2 children to the local church toddler group. The group was lovely, yes there were some bible stories but this was fine. Even if your children do not go to a religious school as they get older, they will still do RE and should be made aware of the different faiths.

It's just a toddler group, not a big deal imo.
I am not religious but we did have our children baptised as my mother requested it, it'll be their choice to be religious or not later in their lives.

I wouldn't worry OP. I am much the same as you. DD has one term in a religious school in Reception. By about half way through the term she wanted me to buy her a Bible. Once she left the school, she forgot all about it and is not at all interested in religion now.

It's nice for your MIL and DS that they are having fun together. Your DS will hopefully treasure this relationship for the rest of his life.

chances are when they go to school there will be some kind of religious element even in a Non dom school

Surely not a big deal for kids to hear bible stories. Doesn’t everyone hear the basics, like Noah’s ark, at some point in there childhood?

I’m not religious but think it’s a nice thing to do. My FIL very religious and never been interested in taking ds to church but wouldn’t be against it

Your MIL will enjoy this group as the other adults have common ground. The story is a story and children should learn about people's different beliefs. The children are children playing with toys and socialising a bit along with a story. Don't over think it.

With church toddler groups, as with many things run by volunteers, there will be some great, warm, inspiring examples and there will be some that can be a bit odd, and aimed at those who the leaders consider 'people like us'. I'm religious and, interestingly, I couldn't warm to the group that most others now in school (a church one nearest the church where the group ran), were raving about when the kids were all very little. By contrast, I have found the youth groups for older ones, still run by volunteers but different approach, have been excellent.

For what it's worth, yes, there will be a small contingent who will see this kind of thing as evangelism territory, but most Christians I have met who volunteer in these groups, are more on the side of wanting to support new parents, give them somewhere safe to play, and to try to put practicality into the 'love your neighbour' request - not 'convert your neighbour'.

Also it’s probably with people from her committing which will make it nicer for your MIL who’s doing you a favour

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

Which Bible stories? Gory details of the Crucifixion or murdering the first born sons or Noahs ark, feeding the 5000 etc?

At that age he won't distinguish between Bible stories or goldilocks and the 3 bears

Many so called fairy stories have their origins in the kind of brutality you quote and even worse. Most Bible stories that would be read to pre schoolage children are about being kind to each other, wht's not to like

I think it is important to recognise the difference between run-of-the-mill Christianity and Fundamentalist Christianity- as with all religions these are two very different religions with very different practices.

The point of fundamentalism is that indoctrination begins at a very early age and pervades all aspects of life, including play, music, stories, etc. I am surprise at how many are unaware of the dangers of Christian fundamentalism. They are sexist, homophobic, and often racist (but obviously not overtly).

Your child will have R.E at school. YABU.

I take my dd to a play and pray group for similar reasons to other posters, it's cheap, good timings, tea and toast that is so good it comes in a marginal second behind the post delivery toast!

I went to Catholic schools and to church regularly as a child but am not particularly religious (I put Catholic on forms and got married in my church - but that was mainly because I cba going to the lessons the other churches insisted on). But the bible stories that are read by the cute little vicar (C of E church group) I have absolutely no recollection of at all! So if I don't remember them, I'm 100% certain my toddler won't!!! 9/10 times she's busy playing with blocks at the time.

But the stories are always morals rather than Jesus did x. I wouldn't worry

but we did have our children baptised as my mother requested it

I cannot understand this. My parents are really devout Catholics but there is NO WAY I would I baptise my kid because they asked me to.

OP - are you planning on taking them out of assembly at school due to your atheism? It’s just the same thing really.

This isn't an accurate comparison. Homophobia, going to hell without salvation, sexism, chastity, condemning those who aren't saved, aren't typical beliefs that are taught in the usual British school assembly.

So is it all religions you'd be against or just the Christian one?

Its unlikely that a bible story will undermine the values that you have established with ds. As previous posters have said, it is a story, and is unlikely to contain extreme views. If it really is just a story and a bit of singing, then this should be fine. Make sure you don't make a religion out of being non-religious.

@Sally872

Your MIL will enjoy this group as the other adults have common ground. The story is a story and children should learn about people's different beliefs. The children are children playing with toys and socialising a bit along with a story. Don't over think it.

agree with this completely. It is not brainwashing in the end, it's a social thing in a safe space. What will happen at 3 years old, your dc won't even remember it. Plus if you are living in the UK, they will get acquainted with Christmas, Easter and bible stories eventually in whatever shape or form, look at it from a cultural perspective.

I think when your MIL is providing you childcare you have to go along with what she wants.

Her proselytizing to your DH didn't have much effect so I'd expect the same would apply to your DC.

I wouldn’t rock the boat…. My mil is religious took my DD to Sunday school/church stuff when babysitting. Made no difference to me my DD is now 13 and an atheist. She does however remember all the church folk being kind and having fun!

I’m a tub thumping atheist and I happily took my kids to a church toddler group. There were bible stories and sometimes at Christmas we had to do a glitter picture of the baby Jesus and sing Silent Night or whatever, but they did proper coffee and the best biscuits and bake sales, and my kids loved it. They still don’t believe in God though!

If it's any consolation, I grew up in an avowedly Church of Scotland family (grandparents / parents were Kirk elders, uncle was a minister, I was baptised as a baby and confirmed as a teenager, attended Sunday School, Bible Class etc).

I've been essentially agnostic / atheist 'lite' since my late teens.

In saying that, I can still quote chunks of scripture by heart now, in my early 40s. Occasionally useful in pub quizzes.

We live in a multi cultural society. I think its important that children learn about everybody's religion at some point. Children's bible stories are just stories and I doubt that he will remember anything about them. It's more important when he's older that he learns tolerance and that, of course, will come from his home influence. My MIL tried desperately to get my 3 interested in Jesus. She was also hideously homophobic and my DC just laughed at her nonsense. My middle DC in his 20s (MIL long gone) has taken to his bible after mental health crisis. The other 2 are very aethist. You and DH will set the best example with your tolerance and understanding of your MIL, even if you don't agree with her.

I'm also an atheist, and pretty much anti organised religion too. However, a lot of religious organisations do a great deal of good service in local communities. Kids' bible stories are mainly parables and cautionary tales, they're not enforcing Christianity. We have stories with the exact same messages and stories in popular culture.
You know what my favourite books were as a child, and that I still read again? The Chronicles of Narnia. They have a VERY strong Christian message and all the stories are about introducing the children to the religion. To be honest, I'd be a hell of a lot more worried about all the things that church are against, instead of what they're for. Let DC go to the playgroup, when he's older and more impressionable, find something you feel is more appropriate, but don't block him from religion altogether either, let him find his own way.