Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

[AtheistMama]

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

i wouldn't call myself a member of any church including the multiple flavours of christianity and I have been through sunday school (my choice) C of E primary (it was the local school) High church grammar school (again my choice) and sporadic church attendance when I lived near a Cathedral. Provided that the story choice is child appropriate and the message is not fire and brimstone, I'd say it was a fairy easy way of being lovely back to a lovely Mil.

I went to multiple "christian" toddler groups ran in church halls. One had a short bible story and one of them had a noahs ark. Neither was religous enough for me to care about.

I went to Sunday school, to a club run by our local church and to a CofE primary school, and am atheist. Seriously, this toddler group is of no import.

As my kids got older and were told bible stories at various places, I just told them that some people believe they really happened and some people think they're just stories.

Really don't worry about it.

I used to run a church toddler group, and I saw it as outreach to the parents and carers rather than the toddlers (even if they did remember the songs, I'm sure they understood them about as much as "wind the bobbin up") - and obviously your MiL is already a Christian.

I think some of the grandparents appreciated it even more than the parents, as some of them found entertaining the grandchildren all day quite tiring, and although they were still responsible for them, there were other adults around to share the load a bit.

I am also anti organised religion and wouldn’t bring my child up in a religion so I see where you’re coming from, however I do think you’re being unreasonable. I don’t think this is a big deal, and isn’t going to turn your son into an evangelical Christian. I would really just leave this one and not worry about it. I think it’s important for kids to learn about religion, you can counter this Christian lesson with lessons about all the world’s other religions, and the similarities and differences in religious and spiritual beliefs across cultures and with your own science based beliefs. I intend to teach my own children about the magic of science and hopefully make that as exciting as any religion. For me, science is pretty spiritual in itself if you think about it deeply (eg the fact that we are all made of the same stuff!).

Bible stories are no worse than Greek mythology or Aesops fables imo.
I wouldn't worry.
Your mil and ds clearly enjoy the group.

Staunch atheist here but the church toddler group I went to was lovely. They had extra volunteers to talk to any adult who was not talking to another adult, they cooked us a meal twice a year - it had a real community feel. There was always a song and a story at the end but if they were always religious it went over my head. The same way religion in scouts and guides would.

We hen mine was little we attended CofE, Methodist, secular and Catholic baby groups. They all followed the Sam pattern , baby play, tea and biscuits, story and a song. In the religious groups they were Bible stories, and the songs where 'christian' about the harvest, easter, Christmas etc. There was never any brain washing, preaching, in appropriate gory stuff. Once at school chances are they'll do the whole Bible stories thing, and seasonal songs anyway. The Christian groups were run by 'grannies' and very occasionally a member of the clergy would pop their head round the door and maybe join in a rousing chorus of the Wheels on the Bus. My toddler wasn't going to be brainwashed and neither was I. They were basically somewhere to go and have a sit down and speak to other people.

I think I did ask DH and he said he wouldn't have any Christianity in it, so I left it at that. Are they old or new testament? If it's old then no worries as they aren't just Christian. Even some of the new testament is relevant to Muslims, I think Jesus Mary and Joseph feature, just that Jesus is a prophet not a Messiah. Well that's what my Muslim relatives tell me.

I think bible stories are an important part of a cultural education and enhance understanding of art, history and literature. If you think of the bible as an ancient work of literature and historic thought, would that help you to see it as a positive thing?

I wouldn’t rock the boat. She is doing you a favour with free childcare. It’s just a story which will probably be forgotten about by the time he starts school. He is enjoying it and she is enjoying it. Sounds lovely for both of them.

You're certainly not alone @AtheistMama in being unclear on how much Christian content would be included in a group like this, perhaps just look into groups/schools more closely to avoid surprises in the future

There's been lots of discussion in the last couple of years about the benefit of toddler groups for young children and their carers who've missed out on so much during lockdowns. Hopefully this group can be something positive for your family despite your different beliefs

Glad you've seen sense OP!

It's all just stories at this stage, your DS will be more interested in the play part of the group.

Out of interest, what's your plan for when he is at school and they have bible (or other religious) stories? I'm in England and am assuming that curriculum doesn't vary that much, primaries do tend to do nativity and Easter which are Christian and they also teach about the other major religions (divali festival, hannuka, ramadan etc), will you allow your DS to take part in that?

I was christened a roman Catholic, went to roman Catholic schools, ran by nuns , We spent our whole primary years praying , singing religious songs and learning about the Bible and jesus. From early on I knew it was all nonsense but I just went along with it. I doubt your child will end up being brain washed by one Bible story a week. Nobody I know who went to school with me is in any way religious at all.

Unless my mum was teaching DD the ins and outs of ritual sacrifice when she's doing childcare, I leave well enough alone. Your DC isn't going to be harmed by it so I'd say let this one go.

The bible study toddler group is a red herring. A few stories about Noah’s Ark isn’t going to indoctrinate or damage your child. But a day a week in the unsupervised care of a religious bigot might well do. It sounds like you would never pick a professional childcare setting that comes with a religious agenda - so is it really worth it to save a day’s childcare fees?

Regardless of what MIL is doing, he’s at a great age to start learning about different types of families (some good books here: www.booktrust.org.uk/booklists/l/lgbt-picture-books/ ) and other religions.

I would not allow my child anywhere near an evangelical church.

Your MIL should have asked you.

In my experience Christian play groups are very welcoming of people with little or no faith and the Christian element is both contained and age appropriate. Most of the morning will be spent playing with other children while Mums and grannies drink coffee and take turns in helping their little ones.

Also, like it or not, we come from a country with over 1000 years of Christian history. If you go into an art gallery without any understanding of bible stories you won't know what half the paintings are about. It doesn't harm to know stories like Noah's ark and the Nativity.

Focus on the positive - free childcare, bonding with granny and not stuck at home without other children for company. Honestly, I couldn't be more pleased. I wish my MiL or my own mother had offered this. Mine was working and my MiL only like babies under age 1 (babes in arms / not yet crawling walking and talking) so pestered me non-stop for a whole day to herself with my breast fed newborn, but was not interested in offering anything helpful when I went back to work after maternity leave.

We're culturally christian country with a non-secular default education system - he's going to encounter these ideas at some point (and arguably needs to, bank holidays etc in this country are religion based so he should have some idea about the stories and history behind them even if he isn't a believer) and toddler group is hardly going to be going hard on the hellfire and brimstone side of evangelism and will be easy to balance out if you talk to him about what religion is and that people have different beliefs so I would let it go.

I'm not sure about Scotland but in England and Wales then at school they'll be learning bible stories, religious education and having Christian based assemblies (it's the law) as well as celebrating other religious festivals. You can't pretend religious groups and people don't exist. If he hasn't brought it up then it isn't a problem. If he tells you you're going to hell for being a non-believer then it is.

Yabu. All church toddler groups have a Bible story. Probably hardly anyone else who goes is religious. Bible stories are culturally relevant - Christianity is the basis of our society. They will just be about Noah's ark, not about going to hell.

I used to take mine to messy church when they were little and I'm not religious. It was just a nice activity and crafts, they loved it. Don't overthink it.

At his age they aren’t going to get into the homophobic bollocks just yet. Bible stories are generally just moral lessons and would fit any ideology. It might be something you need to think about for the future. What if he is gay? Or is in a relationship with a Jewish/Muslim/Buddhist person? Maybe gently discuss with MIL that if same sex relationships or any controversial subjects that she’s says ‘ask your mum/dad’.

@Forestdweller11

We hen mine was little we attended CofE, Methodist, secular and Catholic baby groups. They all followed the Sam pattern , baby play, tea and biscuits, story and a song. In the religious groups they were Bible stories, and the songs where 'christian' about the harvest, easter, Christmas etc. There was never any brain washing, preaching, in appropriate gory stuff. Once at school chances are they'll do the whole Bible stories thing, and seasonal songs anyway. The Christian groups were run by 'grannies' and very occasionally a member of the clergy would pop their head round the door and maybe join in a rousing chorus of the Wheels on the Bus. My toddler wasn't going to be brainwashed and neither was I. They were basically somewhere to go and have a sit down and speak to other people.

Everything Forest says. My Mum took my children to a Catholic church with her if she ever babysat my children on either a Sunday or a Holy Day of Obligation. My sons are now mid-late teens, they were just stories, they sang the songs, same in primary school which was CofE. We are of no religion as a family. My children learned all sorts from different religions growing up, some through school some from people we know of different faiths. It doesn't mean they are now Catholic, CofE or attend any church.

Your MIL is clearly a lovely lady, your son is just listening to some interesting stories and singing some songs.