Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

[AtheistMama]

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

@WinniesHunny

You’re obviously quite passionate about this, but your experience isn’t really comparable to a group event open to the public run by a non-catholic organisation

I took my children to a church playgroup when they were smaller, despite being a staunch atheist. The bible story was always done in a separate room, so to be honest I just didn't attend that bit (unless my child wanted to on the odd occasion, if they saw their friends going in for example). It was totally harmless, a gentle 'moral tale' followed by a few vaguely religious children's songs. However, if you really object could you ask your MIL if it is possible to just skip the story bit?

Bible stories in this groups are just like any fairy story time as far as the kids are concerned.

Have half a thought in mind though OP about how you would feel if your child became a believer through their own choice. A friends son is an evangelical Christian (their family are atheist) - being open minded and accepting of others beliefs may need to work ways round you don't expect.

Just because there's a Bible story doesn't mean it's not open to the whole community. Presumably you knew the group was taking place in a church building and was facilitated by the church? I don't think you can really be surprised therefore that the Bible featured

Ours is open to whole community in fact the monody are church goers. There is a bible story that last for less than 5 mins and not everyone sits and listens to it.

@WinniesHunny - I truly am sorry this happened to you but your experience isn't the same as OPs.

I wouldn't actually be that bothered about the Bible stories. I would be wondering what MIL might be saying to your child about God, though, and about some of the views espoused by that particular church.

My MIL is a church warden, while DP and I are atheists. If I had a child, I'd have no objection to her taking them to her church playgroup. But then, her church is not an evangelical one; it's your classic High Anglican type affair, no hellfire and brimstone or anything, no standing out in the street shouting about Jesus through a megaphone. Most people who go to the services seem to go primarily for the cup of tea afterwards. MIL (and indeed the vicar) are in favour of gay marriage. I wouldn't mind a kid going to a playgroup there. I wouldn't want them going to a playgroup at the kind of church you've described, though.

@saraclara

I'm not Christian but took my kids to a church toddler group. Bible stories are 'just another story' to toddlers. Don't sweat it. She's looking after your child for you, and going to a toddler group at a place where she knows people is a perfectly reasonable and pleasant thing for her to do. She's not secretly getting him baptised or anything.

This^ There is no difference than if he were listening to a story in the library every week. Religion isn't contagious - he won't catch anything and the stories he learns will enhance his education and understanding of mythology.

What's wrong with Bible stories? The ones for kiddies will Noahs Ark and the good samaritan, etc: simple stuff. They are hardly likely to turn him into a religious maniac!! I went to a methodist Sunday school when I was little. I loved the little stories and they did me no harm whatsoever!!

I grew up in an evangelical church as you describe and don't attend church now and would never want to be part of that sort of church again (but would not describe myself as an atheist either).

I agree with @picklespark in that knowledge of bible stories is good cultural knowledge. Learning about other faiths doesn't have to be indoctrination and whilst your MIL might want him to believe she isn't going to manage it through a once weekly toddler group in the pre-school years. Your MIL will be meeting people she knows there (and getting to show off her grandchild) so is a nice social activity for her too as well as your child. I'd let it go personally.

I take my son to a Salvation Army playgroup weekly. I consider the little prayer they do and the song about Jesus to be sort of a “price of entry”, and my kid has zero interest in either anyway. Nothing has really bothered me about it so far, although they did give him a religious themed book around Christmastime, which had a message I didn’t agree with so it’s not been used in our home.

It might make me a little uneasy if my son was being taken to a religious group without me there.
I don’t think you’re being unreasonable to be a little apprehensive about it, especially if your MIL holds strict views about hell and suchlike- but you’re probably a little late on the draw here.

The best thing to do really is have open conversations about religion and what other people believe, and that sometimes they may present those things as facts.

I would suggest that you start reading stories to your DS that come from other cultures/religions but have similar archetypes. It’s a way to expose him to the differences and similarities of the fables and religions of the world.

Im a staunch atheist my dc go to a CoE school, i used to take them both to church run baby groups and messy play
Its just stories to him dont mess with free childcare
I tell my children now they are stories that some believe and some dont i want them to make up their own minds and dont shy them away from any religious education - i really feel to do so leads to ignorance and is as wrong as preaching religion as fact

I'm a Christian and I'm always surprised at how many people on mumsnet are surprised that groups run by Christians have a Christian element to them.

Your child will almkst definitely hear Bible stories at school too. To the kids they are just another story.

I would have gently asked her to pick another activity

In her position I'd have gently told you to gtf.

She shouldn't she go to her choice of toddler group? And chat with friends from her network which your ds will benefit from being a part of? All because you're uncomfortable with bible stories.

"DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood."

Being brought up around your MIL's beliefs hasn't made your DH into a lifelong Christian. What makes you think it will be different with your DC, who will be having much less exposure?

He’s a toddler. He won’t remember anything about it! You’re being unreasonable.

I'm a Christian (not evangelical) and take my minded children to (another) church for toddlers. It is not religious at all apart from a small thankful, child friendly prayer at the end. Genuinely it's all about the playing, socialising and refreshments. So many benefits for the kids and the religious side of it is minimal if anything.

@Adventing

I'm a Christian and I'm always surprised at how many people on mumsnet are surprised that groups run by Christians have a Christian element to them.

I know, I know, I was naive!

I think I did ask DH and he said he wouldn't have any Christianity in it, so I left it at that.

Don’t worry @AtheistMama. I went to Sunday school every week and now a committed atheist. The stories in the bible do have some element of morals so it’s a bit like godly fairytales that teach you right from wrong

He will see it as just another story. Honestly. Even if he believes when he is little (all three of mine have, thanks largely to MIL) it doesn't follow that he always will (I have two agnostics and an atheist now).

I bet loads of non-Christian kids go. I used to go to all the church toddler groups and it was very much just run by the church rather than a Christian group iyswim, despite the Bible stories.

I wouldn't be too worried about a toddler listening to a bible story every week - at that age it's just another story he listens to while playing with friends.

I would be extremely worried though about him spending extended periods of time with adults who believe in hell and think homosexuality is a sin. That could do him real psychological damage and I would be furious if anybody spoke those views in front of him. I would be sitting MIL down and making it very, very clear that she was not to discuss those beliefs with him and that, if she did, her time with him would be extremely limited and supervised.

When I was a child I went to a religious child's group thing not sure exactly what it was I was primary age. I went with my friend who's family was religious mine wasn't and we just did baking and arts and crafts and stuff maybe there was some bible reading and praying can't remember just remember having fun I stopped going when I went to secondary school and never became religious. I really wouldn't worry about it