Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

507 replies

AtheistMama · 06/04/2022 15:12

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

OP posts:
Lillith111 · 07/04/2022 15:04

@TwuntyFriend why is it ok to hold the belief that your friends deserve to be tortured? I’d be uncomfortable if one of my friends worshipped something she thinks is going to torture me even if I don’t believe in it because she’s condoning that torture

TwuntyFriend · 07/04/2022 15:20

[quote Lillith111]@TwuntyFriend why is it ok to hold the belief that your friends deserve to be tortured? I’d be uncomfortable if one of my friends worshipped something she thinks is going to torture me even if I don’t believe in it because she’s condoning that torture[/quote]
Nowhere did the OP state her MIL thinks they 'deserve' to be tortured. But as Christian you believe in Heaven and Hell. Every person has the opportunity to go to Heaven should they wish to choose it.

Lillith111 · 07/04/2022 15:35

@TwuntyFriend if you don’t believe in God you go to hell according to Christianity. Personally I think that no one deserves to be tortured (except perhaps people like Hitler) and anyone who supports and worships an entity who thinks it’s ok to torture isn’t someone I want to associate with. It’s a cruel belief

Pumpfive · 07/04/2022 15:42

I don't think you are naive tbh! As a nanny, I take the children to a Christian led playgroup and there's no religion imposed on the children. It's different for different churches!

stimpyyouidiot · 07/04/2022 15:45

It should not be pushed on children, especially if the parents don't want it. All the 'I took mine and it did no harm' - you made that decision yourself. Op hasn't chosen that for her child and I would be furious if someone tried to indoctrinate my child from a young age. You can all say 'it's just a story!' But children have no critical thinking skills and take things literally. Unless you're saying 'some people believe' (which in a church, they won't be) they are going to believe it.

TheKeatingFive · 07/04/2022 15:47

It should not be pushed on children

It's going to be very hard to keep children away from the most popular bible stories. They are everywhere.

ifyouturnonthelight · 07/04/2022 15:47

All these people whinging about Christian play groups and I bet you all took advantage of the £1 entry fee and the nice toys though

mathanxiety · 07/04/2022 16:00

It's probably not as bad as you think it is. Be thankful that your MIL hasn't been spending her days reading stories from Struwwelpeter to DS.

The big thing you and DS will be able to take away from all of this as the years go on is that we can hold different opinions even on major topics and still love each other.

mathanxiety · 07/04/2022 16:03

@LaLaLouella, the vast majority of people over 75 were brought up to believe in hell and that homosexuality is a sin. Do you think children should be kept away from them?

mathanxiety · 07/04/2022 16:07

@Lillith111, what is this "Christianity" you speak of with such confidence?

SirChenjins · 07/04/2022 17:13

[quote mathanxiety]@LaLaLouella, the vast majority of people over 75 were brought up to believe in hell and that homosexuality is a sin. Do you think children should be kept away from them?[/quote]
They may have been brought up to believe that - most no longer believe it to be the case as they, like the rest of us, develop more enlightened views as society develops and changes. I certainly wouldn’t be happy for my children to be around people who believe homosexuality is a sin and who voice those opinions - would you?

Pinkishpurple · 07/04/2022 17:31

Everyone where i live takes their kids to the baptist church as it's the best playgroup and free, there is a little religious story at the end, but it's just another story to the kids! My kids go to a very religious CofE school and that's much worse indoctrination wise! However husband i are atheists so we discuss what are views are with the kids and they make up their own minds!

Ponderingwindow · 07/04/2022 18:01

@ifyouturnonthelight

All these people whinging about Christian play groups and I bet you all took advantage of the £1 entry fee and the nice toys though
No. Most of us actually raise our children with intention.
WindyKnickers · 07/04/2022 18:16

I'm a 100% atheist and was raised as such. I have limited knowledge of any religion bar what was taught in my comprehensive school (virtually nothing) and bits picked up from TV, media. I am happy with this but as a child I was curious and asked to go to church (not allowed). My ex MIL is a very devout Christian and occasionally the DC go to church with her if they are visiting at Easter, Christingle etc. I actively encourage it, I want them to understand the different beliefs in their family and want them to make educated choices about their own belief systems. I hate children being forced into their parents beliefs and think if a family has a variety of religions children can experience them and choose what they want to believe in. Forcing atheism on a child is just as bad as forcing any other belief system. Help them keep an open mind.

saraclara · 07/04/2022 18:33

Forcing atheism on a child is just as bad as forcing any other belief system. Help them keep an open mind.

Yep. I'm not religious, but I do raise an eyebrow when the more strident atheists accuse religious patents of brainwashing their kids. Because growing up with parents who have a faith is no different in that regard, to growing up with parents who constantly insist that religion is bad and religious people are stupid and/or dangerous. To be honest I suspect that children of the former will probably be more open minded than the children of the more strident atheists.

Blossomtoes · 07/04/2022 18:47

@saraclara

Forcing atheism on a child is just as bad as forcing any other belief system. Help them keep an open mind.

Yep. I'm not religious, but I do raise an eyebrow when the more strident atheists accuse religious patents of brainwashing their kids. Because growing up with parents who have a faith is no different in that regard, to growing up with parents who constantly insist that religion is bad and religious people are stupid and/or dangerous. To be honest I suspect that children of the former will probably be more open minded than the children of the more strident atheists.

Absolutely.
Fairislefandango · 07/04/2022 18:50

Forcing atheism on a child is just as bad as forcing any other belief system.

Atheism is simply the absence of belief in a god. It's the default setting unless you have been told there is a god (or unless you've made a new one up yourself!). Unless a child has encountered people who have told them there's a god, an atheist parent would have no reason to even mention atheism. It's not a belief system.

Saltyquiche · 07/04/2022 19:12

Atheism is a neutral stance, not leaning any direction religiously and thoughtfully

NuffSaidSam · 07/04/2022 19:42

@Saltyquiche

Atheism is a neutral stance, not leaning any direction religiously and thoughtfully
Isn't that agnostic?

I don't think atheists are neutral, they specifically believe there are no god's.

Sirzy · 07/04/2022 20:52

@Fairislefandango

Forcing atheism on a child is just as bad as forcing any other belief system.

Atheism is simply the absence of belief in a god. It's the default setting unless you have been told there is a god (or unless you've made a new one up yourself!). Unless a child has encountered people who have told them there's a god, an atheist parent would have no reason to even mention atheism. It's not a belief system.

But if a child doesn’t encounter those with differing views to the ones in the home then they are having their own ability to learn for themselves massively reduced.
DietrichandDiMaggio · 07/04/2022 23:19

But if a child doesn’t encounter those with differing views to the ones in the home then they are having their own ability to learn for themselves massively reduced.

Surely children will encounter those who believe in a range of religions during their time at school, and will learn about the different religions, so if they are interested in finding out more they can do so then.

WalkingOnTheCracks · 08/04/2022 08:53

Isn't that agnostic?

I don't think atheists are neutral, they specifically believe there are no god's.

I think 'atheist' is generally used in such a way that it covers two slightly different positions.

One is a sort of active atheism - so, you've been exposed to the idea that there's a God, thought about it, and come to the conclusion that you don't believe it. Which is where I'm at, having been brought up in the church. It involves the rejection of belief.

And the other's what you might call unengaged atheism, where you've never really been specifically exposed to the idea that there's a God, so you don't believe it because it's never demanded any serious consideration. Which is where my kids are at. That involves the absence of belief.

You might call it the Yeti model of atheism. If you grow up in the Himalayas, in a culture where tales of the Yeti are part of your every day life, and your Nan tells you she's seen it, you have to make decisions about whether or not you think there's any such thing.

If you grow up in Guildford, you probably haven't thought about it at all.

Fairislefandango · 08/04/2022 09:09

I don't think atheists are neutral, they specifically believe there are no gods.

Atheism isn't a belief, it's an absence of belief (in something for which there is literally zero evidence). If I made up, for example, an entirely fictional creature, would you call the position that it didn't exist 'a belief'?

RampantIvy · 08/04/2022 09:12

The atheists I know (and unfortunately many atheists on mumsnet) are downright rude about people with religious beliefs.

It isn't just about not believing. They know that there isn't any God. They are derisive about believers and sneer at them for believing in fairy tales about a fictitious "friend".

I say this as an agnostic BTW (which to me means that I have an open mind)

Fairislefandango · 08/04/2022 09:16

But if a child doesn’t encounter those with differing views to the ones in the home then they are having their own ability to learn for themselves massively reduced.

Oh I wasn't suggesting for a moment that I think that children should be insulated from views other than those of their parents. I was just describing a hypothetical situation to illustrate the fact that a person with no exposure to the existence of religion will be atheist as a default.

My children were aware from an early age that other people believed in gods and that we didn't. We said to them that some people believe in god, but we (dh and I) don't. They went to a CofE primary school. Ds (14) is vigorously atheist and thinks it's idiotic to believe in god (but wouldn't actually say so to a religious person). Dd (16) is absolutely atheist but a bit more understanding of people who aren't.