Page 17 | Christian MIL taking DC to Christian toddler group - I was unaware

SirChenjins · 07/04/2022 07:54

As in, for many it’s nigh on impossible to step outside it.

RampantIvy · 07/04/2022 08:14

@Aspiringmatriarch

Wow, there's so much anti-faith sentiment on this thread. Some people really can't cope with the reality that globally and historically the vast majority of people have believed in some kind of God, and not everyone shares exactly the same liberal and secular viewpoint as you. I say that as a pretty wishy-washy C of E person who goes to church once in a blue moon and has zero opinion on others' religious beliefs or lack thereof. It's a really intolerant attitude.

I agree with you. If your child starts questioning about religion you counter them with your own opinion. It isn't difficult.

How many of us were "force fed" religion and are religious now? Not many. So clearly, it doesn't work, especially if it isn't backed up at home.

SirChenjins · 07/04/2022 08:16

People don’t tend to just fall into religion - they tend to be born into one faith, are raised in that faith, and follow that faith themselves.

Fairislefandango · 07/04/2022 08:44

I'm sure you're not unpleasant towards religious people in person though.

I'm certainly not. But I don't think I'm unpleasant to religious people online either - I just don't see any reason not to express my views about religion as honestly and robustly as I might do about politics or any other issue, especially on a discussion thread about religion which people have voluntarily joined in with. I'm not even picking on any particular religion, never mind attacking or criticising particular believers.

The thing is, lots of religious people seem to think that a religious belief is more deserving of respect than any other kind of belief, and I (obviously) don't agree. There's a quote I read somewhere, which says something to the effect of 'I respect a man's belief in god to the same extent I respect his belief that his wife is beautiful and his children geniuses'.

Whenigrowupiwanttobea · 07/04/2022 08:56

So what happens when he starts school and the Christmas Nativity play comes around? Will you object to that and refuse permission for him to be a part of it?

RedHelenB · 07/04/2022 09:03

@AtheistMama

Name change for this one.

My MIL does childcare once a week for DS aged 3, for which I am grateful for - they have a great relationship, and obviously it saves us money on nursery fees.

My MIL is a lovely women, not a bad bone in her body. She is also devoutly Christian, belonging to an evangelical church. DH was brought up as an evangelical Christian, but is an atheist and slowly detached himself from their church in his young adulthood. There is no animosity from his mother and the wider family about this (who are mostly also evangelical Christians).

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5, but I have never really talked to MIL about my religious beliefs because she is quite sensitive/easily upset and I didn't want to offend her. The status quo has just been that it is obvious to all that DH and I are not Christian and it's been left at that.

My understanding of DH's families beliefs is that they think everyone who is not baptised is going to Hell; they also do not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage, sex before marriage, etc. I am an atheist and do not subscribe to these beliefs. In particular, the idea that they believe that I am going to Hell bothers me when I think about it. In general, I am anti-organised religion and was never going to bring DS up in any religious way.

MIL takes DS to a toddler's group at her church every week, but I was under the impression that it was open to the whole community and therefore not Christian (I think this came from DH not my MIL). I looked up the group today (was wondering about the timings for a seperate reason), and clocked that they have a Bible story every week.

I'm feeling a bit annoyed because if I had known about the Bible story bit when it was first suggested that she take him (years ago), I would have gently asked her to pick another activity. But now he's been going for a few years, he loves it and it's part of their routine. She would probably be upset by being asked to stop going (and probably it didn't occur to her that I wouldn't be happy about it).

However, I feel really uncomfortable about the Bible story, and annoyed that she didn't say anything at the start. Needless to say, DS has never mentioned it, so it's possible that he's running around the hall and not even listening to it.

DH tends to skirt around issues with his DM that might be upsetting because he thinks she's quite delicate and feels protective about her.

AIBU to bring it up with her now?

It's a story. He'll hear those at nursery and school. Not a battle is pick oersonally.

Xenia · 07/04/2022 10:30

He has probably been shown as a 3 year old a coloured children's book with a fluffy little sheep in it and Jesus loves everyone. It is not going to hurt him and lots of UK cultural references, traditions, songs/hymns, 1800s novels, our history and much else are about Christianity. Your parents are your biggest influence in life at his age so I doubt this play group will do him much harm nor a nativity play or two.

The Bible is mostly pretty sensible stuff in the New Testament about the most important things being love, everyone is equal and be kind to others. Obviously the born again Christian lot tend to take it to extremes and pick out the hell fire and damnation bits but for him aged 3 going to play group with his grand mother is fine.

Aspiringmatriarch · 07/04/2022 10:55

I’m sure you’re aware that historically, religion was a way of controlling the uneducated or poorly educated masses
Well, I think largely that religion is something innate in humanity and at times it has been misused by those in power.

The thing is, lots of religious people seem to think that a religious belief is more deserving of respect than any other kind of belief, and I (obviously) don't agree.

I'm not sure that's the case with a church-based playgroup though? I've just been surprised at some of the answers to this thread.

As I said I'm sure you're perfectly nice to religious people and I don't think you're being unpleasant on here either! But nonethless your view that no sensible person could believe in religion these days is, to my mind, astonishingly dismissive.

saraclara · 07/04/2022 11:04

@RedHelenB why did you quote the whole OP before adding your two lines? We're all responding to the same thing. If people do this it makes the thread become unreadable. You only need to quote if you're replying to someone other than the OP.

twentythreehundred · 07/04/2022 11:08

What is astonishing is how willing people are to believe that Christians can't be radicalised and don't understand the real beliefs of Christian fundamentalism.

Christians can be radicalised. And it starts and is perpetuated at churches like the one the OP is describing.

And the OP is, in effect, supporting a radicalised church by allowing their DC to attend a group there. Whether or not a 3 year old could be indoctrinated is kind of a moot point. Nobody knows the actual stories being taught, most are speculating that the stories would be the equivalent of RE school stories. That is unlikely given the beliefs of this group.

These are the types of groups that bomb abortion clinics, and resort to violence in the name of Jesus and in the name of Christianity. Believe it or not, it is still happening and these fringe groups should not be supported.

The Christians in the OPs post would not accept that CofE people or Catholics are true Christians, they are not tolerant of other religions. That is the foundation of radicalisation

SirChenjins · 07/04/2022 11:11

Well, I think largely that religion is something innate in humanity and at times it has been misused by those in power

I think the need to connect spiritually to something is innate in some people, whether that's to understand the natural world around us or to feel some sense of belonging to a wider community or something else - that's very different to organised religion which has very fixed ideas about how its followers should behave and what they should believe (which is far more about control).

TheKeatingFive · 07/04/2022 11:11

Nobody knows the actual stories being taught, most are speculating that the stories would be the equivalent of RE school stories. That is unlikely given the beliefs of this group.

They're bible stories as per the OP. So yes we do know they're the equivalent of RE school stories.

woodhill · 07/04/2022 11:14

@twentythreehundred

What is astonishing is how willing people are to believe that Christians can't be radicalised and don't understand the real beliefs of Christian fundamentalism.

Christians can be radicalised. And it starts and is perpetuated at churches like the one the OP is describing.

And the OP is, in effect, supporting a radicalised church by allowing their DC to attend a group there. Whether or not a 3 year old could be indoctrinated is kind of a moot point. Nobody knows the actual stories being taught, most are speculating that the stories would be the equivalent of RE school stories. That is unlikely given the beliefs of this group.

These are the types of groups that bomb abortion clinics, and resort to violence in the name of Jesus and in the name of Christianity. Believe it or not, it is still happening and these fringe groups should not be supported.

The Christians in the OPs post would not accept that CofE people or Catholics are true Christians, they are not tolerant of other religions. That is the foundation of radicalisation

Oh come on

ldontWanna · 07/04/2022 11:16

@twentythreehundred

What is astonishing is how willing people are to believe that Christians can't be radicalised and don't understand the real beliefs of Christian fundamentalism.

Christians can be radicalised. And it starts and is perpetuated at churches like the one the OP is describing.

And the OP is, in effect, supporting a radicalised church by allowing their DC to attend a group there. Whether or not a 3 year old could be indoctrinated is kind of a moot point. Nobody knows the actual stories being taught, most are speculating that the stories would be the equivalent of RE school stories. That is unlikely given the beliefs of this group.

These are the types of groups that bomb abortion clinics, and resort to violence in the name of Jesus and in the name of Christianity. Believe it or not, it is still happening and these fringe groups should not be supported.

The Christians in the OPs post would not accept that CofE people or Catholics are true Christians, they are not tolerant of other religions. That is the foundation of radicalisation

Do you base most of your information and opinion on US evangelical churches or UK ones?

twentythreehundred · 07/04/2022 11:18

They're bible stories as per the OP. So yes we do know they're the equivalent of RE school stories.

Noah's ark taught as a fairy tale is very different from being taught that God will fully killed all the people on the earth due to their sinful nature and literally saved a handful of people in an ark.

MrsSkylerWhite · 07/04/2022 11:18

Toddlers won’t know the difference between a bible story and any other story.

Not faintly religious, we went to several very nice church groups with ours. They’re adults now, both atheists.

TheKeatingFive · 07/04/2022 11:24

Noah's ark taught as a fairy tale is very different from being taught that God will fully killed all the people on the earth due to their sinful nature and literally saved a handful of people in an ark.

The child is three. For the love of god.

TheKeatingFive · 07/04/2022 11:26

Just realised my expression of exasperation may be misinterpreted in the context of the thread 😆

twentythreehundred · 07/04/2022 11:36

Do you base most of your information and opinion on US evangelical churches or UK ones?

Most of my opinion is based on personal affiliations/work with people who help other people (usually women) trying to leave fundamentalist Christian groups in the U.K. Some need exit counselling, some are fleeing what would be called DV (but also can be called religious abuse)

RidingMyBike · 07/04/2022 11:50

But fundamentalist Christian groups are v different to your average C of E church. And many of groups will rent space in a community hall each week for their worship, rather than having their own property that they can use for their toddler group.

I go to a C of E church. We have a big congregation, run a food bank, support for carers, social groups for elderly people and a toddler group (because the way the C of E is set up means they are concerned with the needs of their local area which includes things like this). We have male and female priests. We have a large number of gay and lesbian members. Much sadness is expressed about not being allowed to marry same sex couples in church. Nobody could care less (or even know unless you said something!) whether anyone there is single, in a relationship, co-habiting, married, celibate or whatever. There has never been a mention of hellfire or damnation!

My most recent conversations after the service are about the green/eco group where we're trying to improve the local area and move towards carbon zero ourselves. And how to campaign to change things so that same sex couples can get married in church!

SirChenjins · 07/04/2022 11:50

Noah's ark taught as a fairy tale is very different from being taught that God will fully killed all the people on the earth due to their sinful nature and literally saved a handful of people in an ark

Agree. It’s easy to dismiss the sanitised version as nothing more than a child’s story, but ultimately that’s the premise.

RidingMyBike · 07/04/2022 11:51

Some of our gay/lesbian church goers have previously had a bad experience at evangelical/fundamentalist churches, and ended up with our church because we're inclusive.

StrongUE · 07/04/2022 11:55

I used to take my toddler to a Christian play group (because it was the nearest), even I am agnostic, and it didn't do him any harm. Children usually play for most of the time and the religious story at the end is short and usually involves someone playing guitar. It didn't do my child any harm, he doesn't even remember going there now :)
Although, in your case, I would be a bit upset that Granny is ploughing away with her religion without consulting you about it, it didn't turn your DH into a religious man- so why get upset about it?

ldontWanna · 07/04/2022 11:56

@twentythreehundred

Do you base most of your information and opinion on US evangelical churches or UK ones?

Most of my opinion is based on personal affiliations/work with people who help other people (usually women) trying to leave fundamentalist Christian groups in the U.K. Some need exit counselling, some are fleeing what would be called DV (but also can be called religious abuse)

Fair enough. It can't be easy and it also explains your passion around the subject.

brokengoalposts · 07/04/2022 11:57

My mum and I took mine to a Christian toddler group and a similar group for older children as they grew up, we are atheist but culturally Christian. My dc are older now and both are atheist, but are happy they know where the bible comes into our traditions and way of life in this country. I think it is a good balance, it worked for us as a family.