Teachers- be honest please - do you judge or make assumptions?

[BlingLoving]

And if so, how often are you right?

eg when the kid turns up on day one with crazy curls, no hair tie (especially boys) do you immediately think, like I do, "oh no, this family is going to be a bit precious."

Or if the kid's clothes are consistently stained etc, do you chalk that up to parents having limited cash and taking view that school uniform is to be worn (my approach) or do you think they're just careless?

What about the ones who struggle to spend the time doing homework with their DC? Do you think they're just bad parents or are you sympathetic?

@GregBrawlsInDogJail

Is it important to sign the flaming reading diary? I do read with, or to, the DC every day but frankly I prioritise the doing over the writing it in the diary. DC are reading ahead of age so am sure there are no concerns on that front, but I only do the diary every so often when guilt strikes I have the time.

Lol we never sign the diary. DS is free reader and was since year 4 anyway and it's ridiculous. He also likes to research a lot amd read magazines, articles, etc., but his teacher used to say that didn't count. Same teacher who never acknowledged how many books he read so he never received his reward - 50 in a year when he was aiming for it. I wonder if she had judged him 🤔??

I don’t think OP, or anyone else, said curly hair automatically infers all the negative qualities as if it’s The Problem- it was part of the package on a type of student. There’s really no need for the outrage from mums of curly boys who behave like decent human beings, maybe rtft?

I sure as hell wouldn’t judge a child for having long curly hair, tho if you don’t want nits on your kid TIE IT back!
The parents who get on my tits are the ‘i don’t believe in homework, my Emmy is too creative to wear the uniform properly she just HAS to put her spin on it, Theo HAS to have a (banned) juice in his lunch box because he just won’t drink water’ mob.
Basically the ones who send their kid to a school with strict discipline rules then complain the whole time that it’s too restricted…

[quote SockFluffInTheBath]@Pumperthepumper sorry I forgot what you said about your school. I agree about nipping things in the bud but I’m interested in your experience of that being a whole school policy with no official punishment. Are the students ‘fixed’ before they get the point of warranting a detention (in other schools) or does the lack of deterrent ‘encourage’ the students with challenging behaviour? Sorry for all the questions, I’m genuinely interested. I’ve worked in schools with a general ethos to support not punish, but there’s still always been an official line with detention at the end.[/quote]
No, if by ‘fixed’ you mean ‘never misbehave’ then of course not. It’s obviously difficult to go into too much detail anonymously but the general kid in my school acts out because of something fairly major going on at home. So the school culture is no punishments, because 1) they don’t work and 2) they would just make that kid’s life extra shit for a bit of time. But it’s not a perfect system - the staff have to be of the same mindset for it to work, and I know one of my colleagues is miserable and looking for a new job, because they feel unsupported. I can appreciate that, but I still think our school ethos is necessary for the sake of the kids we teach.

PS Theo will drink water, does drink water once the sugary crap is taken away as an option.
They all drink water, all the live long day without a peep!

@Kanaloa

It’s also just a hazard during PE generally - hair should be tied back so it doesn’t catch other children/get caught by other children.

DD has long curly hair. If we've just washed it and brushed it she sometimes likes to wear it in a half ponytail - so it's off her face (as per school requirements) but loose at the back. But she knows she can only do this on a normal day, not a PE day as her teacher makes it clear that hair flying around during PE is a safety issue. She's also old enough now that she can retie it or get it off her face alone so often has a spare hair tie in her back. It's not neat, that's for sure, but it does mean she can make sure to have hair that works for whatever activity she's doing!

I took it less well when the school took it on themselves to give her a massive headband of the style the Duchess of Cambridge wears to formal events for school photos once..I assume because it was a bit frizzy that day!

@SockFluffInTheBath my dd attends an independent specialist school where there are no punishments/ detentions/ behaviour points etc. Every action is considered communication and so the school would look at the reason behind the behaviour and establish what they could alter so the young person didn't have to repeat the behaviour to be heard.
Children in her school have often been excluded from other schools (sometimes multiple times) or had school refusal due to high anxiety (like dd)
It seems to work alongside no uniforms, staff use first names and an awful lot of flexibility on the school's part. So one day last term dd's teacher phoned to say d was refusing the planned lesson as was her friend. We discussed why, alternative lesson offered, teacher for lesson later in day alerted that they wouldn't manage that lesson (reason for refusal in first place was because they were anxious about later lesson and were trying to save themselves for later stress) later lesson altered too. D and friend did both alternative lessons, planned lessons will be reworked to make them accessible at another time.

We moved from Asia and my DS teacher said "yeah right" after he told her he'd ridden an elephant (in front of his classmates). Set the stage for a perfect year of primary (not). Also, made similar gagging noises when he was telling the kids about how delicious dim sum is. Kids from overseas get judged as though there is an assumption that because (British) parents dared choose to live abroad that they look down on UK. That is not the case, but we get judged. All. The. Time. I also lived abroad as a kid and had the same experiences.

@hiredandsqueak was that in Scotland? I’m only asking because I don’t think anti-punishment schools are that unusual up here. I can’t think of any who still have a punishment system. I only know of two with a reward system, actually,

@ToughLoveLDN You raise it in writing with the member of staff who is the “designated safeguarding lead” in your school. As a classroom teacher you don’t contact the parents directly - doing that could in certain circumstances put a child at risk.

@hiredandsqueak I can sort of see the appeal of that process and why it might be helpful in some circumstances but I'd be very worried children are being taught that things can always be adjusted to suit them which just isn't true.

@PhileasPhilby

No I don’t judge. I do get to know the children and their families really well and I do learn about them and their home lives. I try to support them.

Sometimes I get frustrated when I know a child would really benefit from something that - for whatever reason - their families aren’t able to provide. But I also try to understand why families aren’t able to do that.

I also check my privilege so eg if my own dc have toothpaste on their uniform I know no-one is going to make assumptions about me not caring for them properly (because the proper school shoes, Boden coat, smiggle bag, ‘posh’ accent etc etc), unlike the single mum on a v. tight income. Because all sorts of people are making judgments all the time.

Yes, some people get a free pass for something others would not.

@Anorthernlass

We moved from Asia and my DS teacher said "yeah right" after he told her he'd ridden an elephant (in front of his classmates). Set the stage for a perfect year of primary (not). Also, made similar gagging noises when he was telling the kids about how delicious dim sum is. Kids from overseas get judged as though there is an assumption that because (British) parents dared choose to live abroad that they look down on UK. That is not the case, but we get judged. All. The. Time. I also lived abroad as a kid and had the same experiences.

That's really sad. Definitely falls into the judgement (wrong) part of my post vs assumptions made.

I know my DC's teachers judge me. As a lone parent with next to zero support and exH who's an absentee father, I couldn't care less what they think.

I have two children. One always looks like she has been in an argument with a tornado. The other likes to eat mud on the way in.

DS absolutely won't drink water, he gets flavoured water.

I read with both but I'm awful for signing the bloody books.

I feel I would probably be the most judged mum

I'm my experience, teachers ditch a whole load of judgement when they have their own kids!

@Pumperthepumper No it's East Midlands, it seemingly works as children with behaviour that had them excluded lots of times don't feel the need to repeat it when the rigidity and consequences are gone.
@MsMarch All the children in dd's school have been damaged by the school process and frankly if they weren't in that school they would most likely be out of education altogether. None of them believe the world revolves around them I don't think but I do think that they learn to trust that adults can help, they deserve that help and they can learn with the right support in the right environment.

@hiredandsqueak that sounds fantastic, I’m glad you were able to find that school for your daughter.

@Pumperthepumper thanks for coming back to me. Its great what a whole staff approach can do.

[quote hiredandsqueak]@Pumperthepumper No it's East Midlands, it seemingly works as children with behaviour that had them excluded lots of times don't feel the need to repeat it when the rigidity and consequences are gone.
@MsMarch All the children in dd's school have been damaged by the school process and frankly if they weren't in that school they would most likely be out of education altogether. None of them believe the world revolves around them I don't think but I do think that they learn to trust that adults can help, they deserve that help and they can learn with the right support in the right environment.[/quote]
Sounds like it's a very specific approach for vey specific children and is working, so that's great!

Yes of course we do but not necessarily about what you've described. Unkempt and dirty is nothing to do with money, it's quite often parents with little time. Children who are aggressive or nasty to others I judge to have parents that speak the same to them. Attention seekers are exactly that, they crave the attention they don't get at home. You can usually tell which children come from a warm and loving home and those that don't.

@MsMarch All the children in dd's school have been damaged by the school process and frankly if they weren't in that school they would most likely be out of education altogether. None of them believe the world revolves around them I don't think but I do think that they learn to trust that adults can help, they deserve that help and they can learn with the right support in the right environment.

I think it’s crucial to acknowledge this. We, as adults, are ‘allowed’ to have trust issues, to let experiences for us- but we don’t extend that to young people, they’re just supposed to behave and get on with it.

*Form us

@Lady089

Maybe teachers are judging the wrong things! How many teachers have failed to miss clear signs of abuse and neglect? This thread has made me think less of teachers to be honest!

That has context to it. You have to see all the tiny details and consider why.

If I see a lad whose 4C hair is in need of attention and his skin is very dry, I can see there could be something happening at home affecting the ability to care for him. Is his Mum or Dad working ridiculous hours? Has his big sister left home/had an argument/too stressed with exams to do what she would normally do for him? Is somebody unwell and the effort is impossible? Is it that they can't afford the skin and hair care they would normally use?

If another kid doesn't have clean clothes to the extent that it looks as though she's slept in them for a week, no books or PE kit and I've not seen her eat at lunch or breaktime, I'd be wondering in there are financial issues, a washing machine breakdown or whether something has happened that means they aren't at home (did they have to leave with only the clothes on their backs late at night? Has there been a house fire or roof damaged in a storm? Are both parents still living with them? Is there actually an adult there at all when they wake up in the morning?).

If another is extremely volatile all of a sudden or quiet and withdrawn, what's going on there?

Is this a change from normal? Is normal already less than optimal care? Is Mum or Dad very confrontational, disinterested, helicoptery, fond of the 'Bohemian' image? Do their smiles go all the way up to their eyes or is it more like they're baring their teeth at you? Is that fist forming movement at pickup or parents' evening them stretching a sore, arthritic hand, a subtle attempt to calm themselves because they're feeling stressed in a busy hall, or is it a subconscious expression of what they would do to that child if only they weren't in front of witnesses? Is the child getting a smile at the same time as a 'Just. You. Wait.' message telegraphed by the eyes?

One of the things that irritates me about the insistence upon wearing blazers all the time is that you can't see marks on the wrists/lower arms or an unwashed shirt easily and a makeshift bandage to deal with pain in the elbow following being grabbed and an arm twisted is invisible. Dangly hair is used to disguise where a blow could have caught a part of the face/side of the head where bruising would be visible. A pair of thick tights still being worn with holes in and unwashed for four days could be hiding bruising on the legs that would be visible with clean socks. Especially if the PE kit doesn't appear that week, either.

Is the homework being missed because the reaction to doing it at home is an utter meltdown (DD2's reaction - school work was for school, not for home, as far as she was concerned)? Is it because there's nowhere to do it? Does it require equipment they don't have and can't afford? Is the house a mess because a parent is a hoarder and they can't find anything once it's put down? Is it because there's not enough light or heat? Or are they keeping their heads down whilst somebody is being abused or the reaction to disturbing a parent/waking them up for help is worse than the teacher's reaction at school the next day?

Or is the being unkempt, disorganised and clumsy all part of an abusive parent's carefully crafted image to ensure that the kid never says anything, if they do, it's dismissed with a tinkly little laugh as 'oh, we just can't do a thing with it/she hates having it cut or brushed', and the child is being physically and emotionally abused and neglected under a veil of respectability?

I'm very alert to those possibilities because I was one of those abused children.

Those who aren't neglectful or abusive but just think normal expectations don't apply to them are a pain in the arse because they cloud the issue for children who are in horrible circumstances. Mrs Bohemian Free Spirit with her Surfer Boy and Mr We Practise Gentle Parenting, along with Ms Oh I'm such a Ditz or I'm Very Very Important with my Big Job You Know enable the utter bastards to operate unseen.

It might not be one big thing that leads to recognising a child is in trouble. It could be a culmination of tiny things all put together. So staff have to notice everything, including the stuff that's not 'important'. To notice is to judge in some people's eyes. Well, yeah, it's judging that this isn't what is expected, part of the rules, a standard behaviour, a disproportionate reaction - it's an anomaly. And it's the anomalies that can lead to discovering something massive.

@FourChimneys

chillylizard that's interesting. A Nigerian mum whose child I taught would always pay double for everything with a note to say the extra was for someone who couldn't afford it. I assumed it was general loveliness but perhaps cultural as well?

That’s a lovely thing for a parent to do.

@ThatsNotMyMuffin

I judge the names and manners. We used to joke that on the first day you meet them you can generally rank them up for the by GCSEs they're going to get (I teach a core subject).

I don't ever judge on the looks, I know my own children often end up looking feral despite my best efforts.

This is awful. I am horrified. I despair that children have people like you as teachers.