Teachers- be honest please - do you judge or make assumptions?

[BlingLoving]

And if so, how often are you right?

eg when the kid turns up on day one with crazy curls, no hair tie (especially boys) do you immediately think, like I do, "oh no, this family is going to be a bit precious."

Or if the kid's clothes are consistently stained etc, do you chalk that up to parents having limited cash and taking view that school uniform is to be worn (my approach) or do you think they're just careless?

What about the ones who struggle to spend the time doing homework with their DC? Do you think they're just bad parents or are you sympathetic?

I'm a University teacher and we have to do a compulsory course on unconscious bias. It was very useful. It's a shame it's not compulsory for school teachers.

Thanks for the socks tops though. I have ordered some.

Of course they do and we judge teachers too!

Is it important to sign the flaming reading diary? I do read with, or to, the DC every day but frankly I prioritise the doing over the writing it in the diary. DC are reading ahead of age so am sure there are no concerns on that front, but I only do the diary every so often when guilt strikes I have the time.

@Pumperthepumper assuming you’re not in terribly nice schools who only admit terribly nice students, do you find that heads off an increase in poor/ dangerous behaviour by nipping it in the bud?

@Giraffesandbottoms

the ones with boys with curly hair they can't bring themselves to DO anything with (well, with one exception where a mum thought her boy's hair was so gorgeous, used loads of products and it just looked dirty!)

I am so embarrassed for you

ok. thanks.

[quote SockFluffInTheBath]@Pumperthepumper assuming you’re not in terribly nice schools who only admit terribly nice students, do you find that heads off an increase in poor/ dangerous behaviour by nipping it in the bud?[/quote]
I’m not in a terribly nice school, I’m afraid. I said upthread, I’m in a school considered pretty deprived. And I’d argue that, since punishments only happen after the poor/dangerous behaviour, there are better ways of nipping it in the bud.

@Kanaloa - yes, those are all my issues. Don't care about long/short/curly/straight in itself.

@Longcovid21 please do let me know if you find them as good for your DS as for ours. It really made such a difference to our lives and getting out the door for school!

I’ll add too, the most challenging kid I ever taught had a home life that would keep you awake at night. I’m always aware that for a lot of kids, school is very much their safe place. And you have no way of knowing for sure what a kid’s home life is like, so I’m very much in favour of nurture. Just in case.

What is with the curly hate? I adore my DDs wild curls! They are appropriately cared for but often worn down and now I'm wondering if her teachers are quietly judging me.

MIL (primary deputy head) very much judged the dc she taught on their names and whether their parents took them anywhere but the Costas "who wants to spend a week on a lilo seeing nothing" type comments. She thought herself very much above the wc parents. Never stopped her counting food or incorrectly holding a knife and fork though. She expresses surprise I wasn't taught about parsing at my very expensive school; I bite my tongue not to say "shall I pass the butter, there's no need to lean across like that".

@Pumperthepumper sorry I forgot what you said about your school. I agree about nipping things in the bud but I’m interested in your experience of that being a whole school policy with no official punishment. Are the students ‘fixed’ before they get the point of warranting a detention (in other schools) or does the lack of deterrent ‘encourage’ the students with challenging behaviour? Sorry for all the questions, I’m genuinely interested. I’ve worked in schools with a general ethos to support not punish, but there’s still always been an official line with detention at the end.

My honest response- Yes I would be concerned, and have been concerned, if a child came to school wearing a dirty uniform on a regular basis, unwashed, messy hair etc. As a one off you understand that parents had a busy morning, but if it happened repeatedly I'd worry about how the parents were coping with life at home. Same with reading diaries and homework, they shouldn't take so much time that it's an impossible task.

I make sure that my own children wear clean and tidy clothes every day, have tidy hair, bath every evening etc. To me that's normal parenting.

My Year 2 child is looking a bit scruffy at the moment. He's moving up to junior school (with a different uniform) in a few months, so I refuse to get him replacement sweatshirts for the ones he's got pen stains on! His thick coat is also starting to look a bit battered, but again he'll only have to wear this for another week or so, assuming the weather improves after Easter! He has plenty of lighter jackets for summer. We're not especially hard up but I refuse to buy new uniform that he won't get the wear out of, especially if it's just stained with paint or whatever. I hope his teacher doesn't judge us but if she does, I don't really care. He's always warmly clothed in things that fit him which I think is the main thing.

@chillylizard

Yes DH is a teacher and does. But his goes around manners more. For example, he says Nigerian families are the best - hard working, well mannered and a pleasure. Similar with Indian and other Asian families. Family culture has a lot to do with it.

Not all of those families from those cultures will be nice people though, so that's a pretty poor set of assumptions to hold

Teachers make judgements because they are human and that's what humans do. It's virtually impossible not to, and anyone who says they don't do it is a liar. It's good to notice your biases and judgements though, so that you can try to reduce them.

I find the curly/non-tied back hair one really bizarre though tbh, OP. I've been a teacher for over 25 years and I can't say it would ever occur to me make the associations you do with hair.

@Borracha

As a parent, this is quite disturbing.

Observing issues that could signal neglect or other concerns is one thing. But judging a family based on their nationality or chosen hairstyle is quite another.

Yes I think the poster above who’s husband decides which children’s are ‘best’ based off their nationalities and race was trying to come across a certain way and it showed her in the opposite light.

@WelshTiger I find some of what you write difficult to read (my issue - not yours for writing it).

I adore my children - they are well mannered and behaved, fed and looked after, have lots of experiences etc. They are not perfect (and I am clear about when they step over boundaries). However, my husband and I also have busy, full time jobs which are important to us too. My children have privilege and understand that the reason why they have that is because we work hard for it. It also means some sacrifices for them - which we talk about together. Evenings are really tough - time is limited and I don’t always have time to take art out of folders (or even realise it’s there), plant seeds, make costumes or listen to them read (we always read TO them but sometimes my 5 year old DD is too tired to read to me at 7.30pm (sometimes we forget). We probably listen to her read twice / thrice a week. It’s definitely not through lack of care of her wellbeing. Just pure survival in the midst of the juggle. Do I make them a healthy dinner or listen to them read. Do I do the washing or buy all the stuff to plant the sunflowers. It’s hard.

Kanaloa - I never tie up my hair and didn't as a child either as I hated it and I have always had long hair, my hair is mega fine and bobbles tear it apart and leave severe damage and bald spots - my son has the same hair as me.

I have NEVER had lice, my hair doesn't bother me at all, doesn't get 'sweaty' any more than anyone else's and of course it's not dirty/unhygienic any more than tied up hair (what a bizarre assumption to make - and neither me nor my 4-year-old work as a chef so no food prep issues lol).

What magic do you think is contained within a ring of elastic that repeals parasites, stops sweat and cleans hair?

I think id quite like the surfer dude with messy hair and his liberal parents. We are going to need free thinking people who challenge the status quo in the future. Obedience is something that can work against you in the world of work. I wonder if we are just teaching children to conform sometimes. Id probably dance with glee at a class of non conformists with cool names. But that's just me.

@hiredandsqueak

Dgs has a head of curls, it's not long hair as such as it only reaches his collar. Each time dd has it cut his hair gets bigger not shorter as without the length to pull the curls down the curls just get tighter. It's not long enough to tie back. I'm incredulous that dd and dgs could be judged purely because of hair they can do nothing about particularly as dd is completely opposite of the sort of parent who you assume have boys with long curls.

He sounds very sweet, but if it's collar length that is not really " long curls". I tell children with long hair that it needs to be tied back because of nits, and mostly they do tie it back. I'm not fussed about uniform really, although my school does have a fairly strict uniform policy, I'm more concerned that the children are appropriately dressed for the activities they will be doing - so shoes/trainers they can run in and do up themselves. You'd be surprised ( well, I was, as parent of boys) at the number of girls who come to school in ballet style shoes - that is within the uniform policy if they are flat and black, but they can't run properly in them and they provide very little protection against the weather. I judge those parents, and I judged the very few parents who sent in their children in dirty/grimy/smelly clothes ( I don't mean stained, I mean unwashed - , not even sponged down. )But then I found out that some of the families are living in conditions where they don't have facilities to wash clothes, some temporary accommodation is absolutely terrible. I recall one child who had the same (holey) socks on for more than a week, and when I chatted to her one day it turned out that her Mum was in hospital with a very sick younger sibling, and this girl and her 6 other siblings were staying with auntie, who also had a number of children, in a flat. Auntie was working miracles just housing, feeding and getting these children to school - replacing holey socks was a) not in her budget and b) way down her list of priorities. So I try not to judge, but to ask questions if I see something that was worrying, so that we can arrange support if possible.

@MajesticallyAwkward

Well quite! Sometimes DS has beautiful ringlets just below his ears, and sometimes it looks like a bird’s nest. And sometimes it gets squashed somehow and looks lank and sad and less curly but longer, despite being washed and brushed daily! Never knew someone would be assuming i am some sort of feckless parent and he thinks he’s better than everyone else.

@TheNameOfTheRoses Not sure why you took what I said so badly - if people act unpleasantly, is it a surprise if people judge them? I have no idea what issues you went through with your child and their teachers but attacking a random teacher on the internet for something I haven’t done suggests it must have been pretty awful. I’m sorry that’s been your experience of our profession.

@mam0918

Kanaloa - I never tie up my hair and didn't as a child either as I hated it and I have always had long hair, my hair is mega fine and bobbles tear it apart and leave severe damage and bald spots - my son has the same hair as me.

I have NEVER had lice, my hair doesn't bother me at all, doesn't get 'sweaty' any more than anyone else's and of course it's not dirty/unhygienic any more than tied up hair (what a bizarre assumption to make - and neither me nor my 4-year-old work as a chef so no food prep issues lol).

What magic do you think is contained within a ring of elastic that repeals parasites, stops sweat and cleans hair?

Obviously I don’t think hair ties are magic. And of course your child doesn’t work in food prep - they will presumably do home ec at a certain age and probably baking at primary.

Having hair all over the face while doing sports/active play can definitely contribute to the child getting sweatier than if it’s tied back. And of course it’s more likely to get dirty when it’s swinging all around as it’s more likely to touch the face, paints being used, messy play substances etc. Same with lice, if it’s neatly tied back it’s less likely to touch other people’s hair.

It’s also just a hazard during PE generally - hair should be tied back so it doesn’t catch other children/get caught by other children.

This is so interesting to read.

For the teachers, if you notice something with a child in their behaviour that could be a sign of something they may need some help with at what point do you contact the parents? Or is there like a special channel that you have to go through?

Or say for example if the child coming in is smelly or dirty etc and this is noticed on a regular basis, how is this kind of thing handled?