Teachers- be honest please - do you judge or make assumptions?

[BlingLoving]

And if so, how often are you right?

eg when the kid turns up on day one with crazy curls, no hair tie (especially boys) do you immediately think, like I do, "oh no, this family is going to be a bit precious."

Or if the kid's clothes are consistently stained etc, do you chalk that up to parents having limited cash and taking view that school uniform is to be worn (my approach) or do you think they're just careless?

What about the ones who struggle to spend the time doing homework with their DC? Do you think they're just bad parents or are you sympathetic?

My DD’s reception teacher was very judgemental. She was moving up to be a year 1 teacher and had kept all the middle class boys in her new class and imported in the middle-class girls while the lower socio-ecomomic group children were put in the other year 1 classes. Luckily DD’s new Y1 teacher was lovely and kind as well as a brilliant teacher and had a really good calming influence on the children. If she was judging the patents she hid it very well, unlike the reception teacher. No very naughty, ethnic, or outside of school-gate—parent clique children left languishing to the last weeks of summer term to get their turn to have the class bear or not get a star of the week either.

@NeverDropYourMooncup what an amazing post, thank you. I’m sorry for your childhood.

Those who aren't neglectful or abusive but just think normal expectations don't apply to them are a pain in the arse because they cloud the issue for children who are in horrible circumstances. Mrs Bohemian Free Spirit with her Surfer Boy and Mr We Practise Gentle Parenting, along with Ms Oh I'm such a Ditz or I'm Very Very Important with my Big Job You Know enable the utter bastards to operate unseen.

This is absolutely the problem- unnecessary diversion of time and resource.

[quote SockFluffInTheBath]**@MsMarch All the children in dd's school have been damaged by the school process and frankly if they weren't in that school they would most likely be out of education altogether. None of them believe the world revolves around them I don't think but I do think that they learn to trust that adults can help, they deserve that help and they can learn with the right support in the right environment.

I think it’s crucial to acknowledge this. We, as adults, are ‘allowed’ to have trust issues, to let experiences for us- but we don’t extend that to young people, they’re just supposed to behave and get on with it.[/quote]
On paper dd is the perfect student she had never misbehaved in school she always did exactly as she was told every time without question, she has an IQ of 162 so the academics aren't a challenge but school broke her. Her teacher and I silently cheered the day she refused because it signified that she had recognised her needs and for the first time in her life she didn't swallow down the anxiety and push through regardless.

I think it’s just different mindsets though. I’d also refuse to allow a school to give my kids detentions and I’d argue that it’s our job to keep kids engaged in lessons.

This sounds like a different world tbh. I've worked in quite a lot of secondary schools, and the only one which didn't use detentions was a very lovely, elite private girls' school.

Of course teachers try to keep students engaged in lessons. That doesn't mean it's always possible. Some of the behaviour we see (both in lessons and out of lessons) is frankly worthy of reporting to the police, never mind being given a measly detention. And that's in a pretty normal, standard state comprehensive in a nice area, not a sink school in a deprived or dangerous area. And the worst-behaved kids are by no means always those with mitigating issues at home. I think schools should have more powers to punish and exclude, not fewer. If my dc misbehaved I'd totally support them getting detentions.

@Fairislefandango

I think it’s just different mindsets though. I’d also refuse to allow a school to give my kids detentions and I’d argue that it’s our job to keep kids engaged in lessons.

This sounds like a different world tbh. I've worked in quite a lot of secondary schools, and the only one which didn't use detentions was a very lovely, elite private girls' school.

Of course teachers try to keep students engaged in lessons. That doesn't mean it's always possible. Some of the behaviour we see (both in lessons and out of lessons) is frankly worthy of reporting to the police, never mind being given a measly detention. And that's in a pretty normal, standard state comprehensive in a nice area, not a sink school in a deprived or dangerous area. And the worst-behaved kids are by no means always those with mitigating issues at home. I think schools should have more powers to punish and exclude, not fewer. If my dc misbehaved I'd totally support them getting detentions.

England?

@bluebaul

I tend to immediately make assumptions about families where the children have copious long curls, never tied back. I just know they're going to be all tinkly laughs and "oh so liberal" while their kids are probably hooligans!

This is fucking awful. Like seriously. WTF.

I just think it is such a weird, and such a specific thing to judge a family on, why would the OP focus on that to ask teachers about?

Judgmental about curly hair? Do you believe all curls are “crazy” & child is suffering bad parenting? Get over yourself. Curly hair is curly. Never occurred to me that people judge parenting skills on child having curls, yes even on a boy. Curls are lovely, boys / girls don’t need to be shorn or have hair restrained to please you curl haters. This is the weirdest thing I ever heard — judging kids with curls.

@AG1981

I am a teacher. I also have an autistic child. Those judging I'm on behaviour, make sure it isn't undiagnosed SEN rather than poor parenting.

I used to judge behaviour and blame parents entirely for it, as a young teacher. I was wrong to do that and I've learned that the hard way!

Ds would go into school looking like he had been dragged through a hedge backwards. Dirty finger nails hair a mess, clothes a mess.

He had walked through the front door 20 minutes before with clean and ironed clothes, clean fingers and combed hair. He would make it his purpose in life to stick his hands (and sometimes his head) in the soil of the flowerbeds each morning and roll around on the front lawn in his clean ironed uniform whilst giggling away.

With another slightly older child who couldn’t be trusted to not just run out in to the road so I always had to have a hand on Dd it was impossible to stop him.
Baby wipes and short nails for Ds to get most of the dirt off but he wasn’t exactly clean and tidy when he arrived at school.

The teachers were so busy judging me that when I asked about an assessment for dyslexia as Ds wasn’t making progress academically.
The impression I got was they thought I was just trying to find a deflection from ds’s issues and to them it was purely down to poor parenting.

Ds never did get a dyslexia assessment in school. He didn’t read properly until he was 12 years old

One of the children in his class who was very well behaved and very academic. Their mum approached me a few years later to apologise for thinking I was a very poor parent with no discipline.

She had gone on to have another child who was the opposite to the academically bright well behaved eldest child and suddenly getting down to the child’s level and explaining you don’t want to see certain behaviours and the child complying she realised was not about being an excellent parent and more about having a child who wasn't going to do anything naughty anyway.

Suddenly she was the one who people were talking about as a bad parent.

What a bizarre thing to pre~judge a child on..''Curly hair?''

I do know someone who taught 'A' levels, and he said ''I can generally tell who will get an 'A' grade in the first week.
But that was on the basis of their first essays.
Another said ''You never have trouble with students who sit at the front bench -At the beginning of Autumn term.

England?

Yes. Various parts.

@BlingLoving, how nice for you that your DD would let you touch her hair.

It’s impossible not to make judgements especially as teachers always have to be alert to any signs of potential problems, but the judgements I automatically make aren’t necessarily the ones you’d assume that someone would make. If a child is often late and scruffy, I would automatically assume that the parent(s) have poor organisational skills. I would bear the lateness and scruffiness in mind and when interacting with the parents and chatting with the child throughout the school day you can often tell if this is the reason or if it’s something more concerning or that needs actioning. It’s not necessarily a red flag, more a small marker to check a bit further to see if our initial judgement is correct.

I’ve met loads of parents as a teacher and really liked the vast majority of them no matter what their circumstances were and what problems they had. The ones that persistently wind me up are a)” the ones who don’t listen to their child read and b) the over the top try hard ones who do their kids homework for them (always very obvious when the parents have done it) and are constantly pushing and pushing their poor kids who just need to chill out a bit.

@ThatsNotMyMuffin

I judge the names and manners. We used to joke that on the first day you meet them you can generally rank them up for the by GCSEs they're going to get (I teach a core subject).

I don't ever judge on the looks, I know my own children often end up looking feral despite my best efforts.

Bit stupid to judge a child by their name since they didn't choose it. They were named by their parents. So thick of people to look down on, or criticise, someone by the name they have which was given to them by someone else...

[quote hiredandsqueak]@Pumperthepumper No it's East Midlands, it seemingly works as children with behaviour that had them excluded lots of times don't feel the need to repeat it when the rigidity and consequences are gone.
@MsMarch All the children in dd's school have been damaged by the school process and frankly if they weren't in that school they would most likely be out of education altogether. None of them believe the world revolves around them I don't think but I do think that they learn to trust that adults can help, they deserve that help and they can learn with the right support in the right environment.[/quote]
I'm guessing these are specialist schools though with funding coming in that mainstream don't have access to?
And pupil to adult ratio is higher than mainstream in order to support these children's individual educational needs?

If so, not something that can be replicated in mainstream with 30 kids per class

I just think it is such a weird, and such a specific thing to judge a family on, why would the OP focus on that to ask teachers about?

Well, in my defence, I didn't. It was one example I gave. I asked if there were things that teachers spot up front that immediately lead to them making assumptions. We've all just got rather bogged down on my personal example of where I make assumptions!

@Fairislefandango

England?

Yes. Various parts.

Yes. I think there is a different approach to education generally in Scotland.

@Goodyetalso

It’s impossible not to make judgements especially as teachers always have to be alert to any signs of potential problems, but the judgements I automatically make aren’t necessarily the ones you’d assume that someone would make. If a child is often late and scruffy, I would automatically assume that the parent(s) have poor organisational skills. I would bear the lateness and scruffiness in mind and when interacting with the parents and chatting with the child throughout the school day you can often tell if this is the reason or if it’s something more concerning or that needs actioning. It’s not necessarily a red flag, more a small marker to check a bit further to see if our initial judgement is correct.

I’ve met loads of parents as a teacher and really liked the vast majority of them no matter what their circumstances were and what problems they had. The ones that persistently wind me up are a)” the ones who don’t listen to their child read and b) the over the top try hard ones who do their kids homework for them (always very obvious when the parents have done it) and are constantly pushing and pushing their poor kids who just need to chill out a bit.

Agree. 5 minutes a day is nothing. It is vital and yet 'I don't have the time.' Find it. Parent!

One little lad was in grey sleeves (white shirt), constantly filthy, so I organised spare shirts and to wash his uniform and dry it while he had PE so it wasn’t obvious.

That's so kind, @cherrysoup. I'm a bit emotional today anyway, but this touched me.

@Anorthernlass

We moved from Asia and my DS teacher said "yeah right" after he told her he'd ridden an elephant (in front of his classmates). Set the stage for a perfect year of primary (not). Also, made similar gagging noises when he was telling the kids about how delicious dim sum is. Kids from overseas get judged as though there is an assumption that because (British) parents dared choose to live abroad that they look down on UK. That is not the case, but we get judged. All. The. Time. I also lived abroad as a kid and had the same experiences.

Oh that’s a real shame. I’d be going out of my way to include all those fascinating experiences into class time/show and tell etc. Kids who have had life experience need to be celebrated!

Then we have others who seem to not be very interested in their child's well-being. Things like not taking library books from the bag the whole week, never taking artwork out of their bags so it's still in there the next day. I understand that things get missed (I've done the same) but when it's every day, you start to wonder

My children have books at home they are reading. Im not going to also add a school reading book and a random library book they took out as someone LSA’s CPD target to give children library experience. We visit actual libraries.

And the school sends home rubbish for us to bin rather than art work so you can keep it.

They're bound to judge they're human, however whether this judgement influences their job is a mark of the person and their capacity.

My sister is a wonderful teacher and has always taught in extremely deprived areas. She has come home will an array of stories and has often judged the parents, especially where social services are involved however this has never influenced her opinion of the children.

She has been physically assaulted innumerable times by children at a third of her height at 4 years old to boys who are taller than her at 11 and has had a number of stand offs with the parents when police have had to be called. She has packed lunches for kids who go without. If she knows kits won't get washed she'll bring them home so the children don't miss out. She brings home half a dozen swimming bags weekly and always has a boot full of dirty PE kits over the holidays or if it's been particularly muddy. She has a team of staff who do the same. During lockdown we would ring one another during our hour's exercise and often I'd speak to her and she would say she hadn't slept because she was up worrying about certain class members.

Teachers break their backs but there are also rotten apples who are just not suitable for the role. We all judge and it's what we do with that judgement that really is a mark of the person.

I judge..

Neglect
Abuse
Disinterest
Preciousness/refusal to accept there is a problem (be that academical,SEN, behavioural etc)

Otherwise I take the kids and the parents as they come. It seems to work. I manage to build trust,bonds and good relationships even when it's not exactly straight forward.

@Kennykenkencat

That hit me right in the feels. I was very similar to your son as a child, boundless energy, looked like I'd been dragged through a hedge, covered in stains, scruffy etc and as an adult I was diagnosed with varying forms of Autism and Dyspraxia.

I was always tarnished as lazy and a bit feral. So happy your son got the diagnosis and support he needed.

Stupid to judge a parent on homework. My DC with Sen has always refused to do homework, it's very rare she'll do it. The school do get annoyed but it's not because I can't be bothered i spend a hour with her each week trying to make her do it even follow with punishments.

That said no teacher should be judging on stained clothes right now, parents don't have a money tree!

The only thing I would judge parents on is reading, and that can only be done after at least a term of knowing them.

The ones who never read with their children are doing their children a huge disservice and are actively preventing their children from achieving their potential across the whole curriculum. I have little sympathy with the parents who complain that their children won’t read at home because it’s usually their fault that they don’t like reading at home. If it had been put in place as an expectation at the start of reception and presented as something rewarding then it wouldn’t be an issue.

The parents who insist that their Y1 child has read Harry Potter are equally as bad. They seem to think that decoding is the only thing that matters and it’s irrelevant if the child hasn’t understood or retained any of it.