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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be furious mum is alone in hospital?

290 replies

EmmaH2022 · 04/04/2022 00:15

I know I'm not
Mum is in a hospital corridor going into hour 6 after a suspected heart attack
They wouldn't let me go with her
Did they inject everyone with insanity?
She's 83.

I should be worried that she's going to die, but something about dying on a trolley gives me the RAGE. I wish I'd been here. I would never have let them take her to the hospital. I could at least have tried a private one.

No one answers the phone at the hospital obviously.

What happens if i just turn up in the morning?

OP posts:
bitemyarsenic · 04/04/2022 11:40

[quote ChiswickFlo]@bitemyarsenic

Firstly I voted Labour and remain but nice try

Secondly my mum didn't need a Dr to get a saline drip or iv pain meds and indeed didn't see any Dr until nearly 24 hours after she presented at a&e

poor care is poor care

Hope that helps[/quote]
That was a general comment to all those who did.
My other comments remain-so who prescribed the iv meds or pain relief then?
A nurse prescriber?
So why didnt they give them ?

I agree poor care is poor care!
Ive been banging on and and writing bloody incident reports for years!
So has every other person in the NHS🤦

But you arent going to listen are you!?
Write your complaints, phone PALs etc
They dont care, NHS management think they are untouchable, Matrons sit in their offices drinking tea and ticking boxes to tell everyone its all fine.
Well it isnt, its a shitshow but honestly Im so done with trying to battle for people who wont listen.

Jaxhog · 04/04/2022 11:45

My 92-year-old mum had a similar experience earlier this year. She is fine btw. I was sad she couldn't have anyone with her, but glad also, as it meant she didn't catch Covid while she was there.

ChiswickFlo · 04/04/2022 11:46

I've no idea tbh.

I had left by the time she was seen and my understanding is that it was an AP (nurse prescriber?) who was sorting meds and it was her who arranged all the x rays and scans...

What do you suggest we do as relatives of people who are being actually harmed by not getting basic care?

Because other than about from.the rooftops about poor care, lack of funding, badly trained staff etc etc what do we do?

Just shut up?

Go away?

What is it we should do? Other than not vote tory obviously

ChiswickFlo · 04/04/2022 11:46

Sorry that ^ was a reply to @bitemyarsenic

OMG12 · 04/04/2022 11:49

[quote ChiswickFlo]@bitemyarsenic

Firstly I voted Labour and remain but nice try

Secondly my mum didn't need a Dr to get a saline drip or iv pain meds and indeed didn't see any Dr until nearly 24 hours after she presented at a&e

poor care is poor care

Hope that helps[/quote]
Totally agree. I developed PTSD as a result of the NHS shortly after years of Labour Government and when we had a Tory-lib dem co government- they are all pretty crap.

The problem is, medical staff refusing to listen to patients and their families who often have a much better idea of what’s going on. They need to realise they are not God. Non of that is political or budget constraind It’s a mind set.

It takes no more time to speak nicely and respectfully to patients and family than rudely.

They are hiding behind covid, why are they more afraid to catch covid at work than anyone else, or during their social lives? It’s becoming clear that this is to take away the annoying relatives who might question them.

Don’t even get me started on getting a doctors appointment! (Same problems and making the hospital problem worse).

The NHS is a service we all fund, we are not getting what we pay for, there’s too much wastage and inefficiency and often we are treated like we shouldn’t even be using the service we are finding by the very people who are paid for by our taxes.

bitemyarsenic · 04/04/2022 11:49

@ChiswickFlo

I feel for the decent staff I do But so many aren't decent now...whether that's the post brexit skills drain or just burn out I'm not sure
There has always been an issue with this in the NHS. Decent staff report and are bullied as a result. A colleague of mine reported another for serious verbal abuse of other staff and patients and did so via the NHS Whistleblowing process and was hauled into a Matrons office as a resultHmm Staffing is so short they employ anyone and its all a numbers game. Burnout does cause issues, staff are literally broken,go off sick and simply have zero capacity to care for others. Of course they are threatened for being off sick and so it goes on and on.
ancientgran · 04/04/2022 11:52

[quote chuffoff]@RosesAndHellebores at our hospital they do. Everyone who can be has been seconded to the wards. My manager was doing all the discharge paperwork last week to try and take the load off the very few doctors we have at the moment due to covid. We have back office support staff on rota helping patients with mealtimes. And in the meantime, those bloody excel spreadsheets do still need completing because while everyone thinks that the NHS is above scrutiny, it absolutely is not. The government-backed external organisations needing performance and outcomes data is utterly relentless. New guidelines to disseminate and implement, new recommendations to put in place especially off the back of the latest Ockenden report. That's just the tip of the iceberg of what needs to be done behind the scenes to run an acute hospital which is absolutely on its knees. We're clinically led so all of our leadership team are rightfully with patients but the hospital still needs to be properly managed and run. [/quote]
Can you imagine the fuss if payroll wasn't run as admin staff on the wards, or rotas not prepared, or recruitment ground to a halt, or no one ordered meds or food.

Admin and management staff aren't sitting doing nothing and they are needed for their jobs.

ChiswickFlo · 04/04/2022 11:55

@bitemyarsenic
That's my take on it too, sadly.
Too many nasty bullies who get away with it.
Even the receptionist was vile....mocking a man for having the temerity to ask for a gluten free biscuit as he hadn't had any food for 28 hours....
"We don't take special orders!"
Last I checked coeliac disease was a serious health condition?
Ugh.

ChiswickFlo · 04/04/2022 11:57

@omg12

Yes!!!

I kept telling them she was badly dehydrated. I kept mentioning the previous sepsis (only 6 months ago)
I kept asking for pain relief

Looking back, I think they probably hated me:)

bitemyarsenic · 04/04/2022 12:00

@ChiswickFlo

I've no idea tbh.

I had left by the time she was seen and my understanding is that it was an AP (nurse prescriber?) who was sorting meds and it was her who arranged all the x rays and scans...

What do you suggest we do as relatives of people who are being actually harmed by not getting basic care?

Because other than about from.the rooftops about poor care, lack of funding, badly trained staff etc etc what do we do?

Just shut up?

Go away?

What is it we should do? Other than not vote tory obviously

Nothing to be done. Its too late.

One thing
Staff are not badly trained -thats a big box that has to be ticked and something the NHS does well, there just arent enough of them to meet the needs of patients.
No matter how well trained you are, you cant be in 10 places at once.

NWQM · 04/04/2022 12:00

Firstly I do work in the NHS and could say plenty but you are dealing with a crisis and as I have also been a carer I offer the following....

  • call PALS not A&E. Or get the next of kin too
  • ask them a) how to complain and b) whether they do not make allowances re visitors where their is cognitive impairment.

CI can be temporary. Mediciation, water infection etc erc

Ask who is safefuarding your Mum? Have they made an assessment that she is cognitively able to make decisions about her care?

If not then you want - as she is vulnerable person - to know who is acting as her advocate and how they have been appointed.

If you cant actually yourself then go to the hospital then decide who will.

It is awful and heartbreaking that she is on a trolley but if you have any concerns re treatment please push.

You really shouldnt have to but...

If you dont alreay have power of attorney and after in the hospital your Mum is well enough to grant it you please do. Its really much harder and expensive to get if its left until its actually needed rather than 'in the event.'

Forgive me if you know all this. We learnt the hardway and I wish someone had said

LBFseBrom · 04/04/2022 12:08

@Sunnysideup999

I’m so sorry OP and for those with all these awful stories of horrendous care. I never once clapped for the NHS and I’m not afraid to say that. It’s not a charity - it’s a hugely wasteful, appallingly run disaster. The staff are mostly amazing - but that’s not the point. When people end up worse off in hospital than out - it is extremely worrying. There is no alternative sadly - and we are all at the mercy of it.
I get what you are saying, Sunny.

I had a terrible in patient experience three years ago and since then have vowed never to go into hospital again unless it really cannot be helped, eg I am run over by a 'bus or similar. It's hard at any time but more so when you are getting old, you're so vulnerable and nobody seems to care.

However the op does care about her mother and I hope she is currently on her way to her.

bigbluebus · 04/04/2022 12:08

I had 20+ years of dealing with the 'wonderful' NHS and I can categorically say that this is not all as a result of Covid. The cynic in me says they are keeping family members out as they don't want them to see what's going on as they would without a doubt be raising complaints left right and centre. It is over 5 years since I last stayed with a relative as their carer on a ward but the stories I could tell about the things I saw and experienced would make your hair curl. Patients suffering injury due to neglect - broken hip due to patient climbing out of bed over bed rails and a catheter snapping off inside an elderly man's penis as he got out of bed and walked off with the catheter bag still attached to the bed. Their defence - they didn't know the patients were mobile! Assessments for pressure sore risks were a joke. My relative assessed as not at risk - inspite of being totally immobile and having been supplied with a hospital bed with an airflow mattress at home by the NHS. I could go on. I wasn't even aware the assessment had taken place until I saw it ticked on the paperwork - and I was there 24/7.

All covid has done is widen the cracks that were already there in this failing, inefficient system.

bitemyarsenic · 04/04/2022 12:11

They are hiding behind covid, why are they more afraid to catch covid at work than anyone else, or during their social lives? It’s becoming clear that this is to take away the annoying relatives who might question them.

Do you seriously think a junior nurse or doctor is making the policies here?
Honestly you are nuts if you think staff on the ground are deciding these things🤣🤣🤣
We are told what to wear, ppe, what the current policy is on visitors and expected to stick to policy.
Quite frankly its the poor admin staff who are getting major abuse about this, every single day.
Every single person I know has carried on trying to avoid Covid in and out of work because we are so short.
Some areas have whole teams off with covid right now.
We are still subject to the PPE/ isolation rules and thats if you dont become unwell.
Many staff havent returned from the previous strains and we are seeing staff off unwell for several weeks with this strain.
But according to the government its no longer " a thing"Hmm

bloodywhitecat · 04/04/2022 12:13

I hear your rage OP, I was in a similar position with DH in Nov, it is heartless and wrong. DH had no voice and limited understanding but still he was alone. I hope things improve for you and your mum soon.

lisaandalan · 04/04/2022 12:14

Id go in the hospital and take her out, if there is someone on the door I'd just say you have to collect someone. X

bitemyarsenic · 04/04/2022 12:14

All covid has done is widen the cracks that were already there in this failing, inefficient system

This !

Malibuismysecrethome · 04/04/2022 12:16

bitemyarsenic
People do complain and write letters. You get a standard response back. If you are dealing with a terminally ill relative you really don’t have the time to spend fighting bureaucracy. The people working in the NHS should be complaining via their unions but I guess many of them are happy with their work environment. I’ve heard it’s impossible to get sacked for instance.

worriedatthistime · 04/04/2022 12:16

No visitors due to covid but carers allowed
Have sat myself in a and e for several hours a few times in last month, one awaiting to fjnd out if needed an op and was scary being on my own , but they did send someone in regularly and with covid so rife i understood the need for the rules

Whooshaagh · 04/04/2022 12:16

I remember over 10 years ago witnessing blatant fraud in my department.
I didn't report it because I knew the only person who would face consequences would be me.
One of the first lines on the site is warning the whistle-blower about false accusations.
The NHS is a hit and miss affair now.
My dd has just received fantastic care and treatment and so has my dm.
My dil's df, pre covid, died on a trolley in A&E and she had to say goodbye on the phone as she lived too far away.
He was terminally ill,had a routine appointment and was too ill for it so they withdrew his bed and dumped him in A&E.
My dil still has huge trauma from this.

PostMenPatWithACat · 04/04/2022 12:18

I had to go to A&E last summer. Covid rates were negligible. I waited 2.5 hours on the pavement in pouring rain for an ambulance. I had a very badly broken wrist (plated three days later) and a suspected fractured vertebrae.

On arrival a senior nurse and administrator yelled abusively at the ambulance crew because they hadn't been told they were waiting, they were standing in front of them. We then heard reception yell at a patient who asked how long they would be. Reception were sitting chatting but yelled at the gentleman for asking, and all the while game shows were playing at full volume.

There was zero communication and after 5 hours I waved down a nurse whonshouted at me asking what I'd done with my wristband. I wasn't given one. She brought one and took me to another waiting room which was much more civilised ordering my husband to sit down on the other side of the room. He wanted to wait with me and very politely said he was happy to stand twice. The third time he raised his voice and she bent down to my level and rolled her eyes at me. It was disgraceful. We noted about half a dozen staff behind glass in this room having a great laugh and banter about their holidays.

Eventually I was seen by a junior Dr who spoke to me as though I had fewer than three brain cells and assumed I was retired as I was over 60. I am not. She then launched into a very patronising frailty review. When we got to my injuries she refused to accept I might have a broken vertebrae and told me I had to trust her because she had been to medical school. I fought for a back XRay and she told me there was only an old injury and therefore I hadn't fractured a vertebrae in the accident.

I was taken to resuss for my wrist to be reduced and the registrar was shocked that nobody noticed my rings needed to come off - perhaps the junior Dr might have noticed if she'd been less busy being reductive.

We arrived at 5.30pm and left at 5.30am. I was not offered so much as a glass of water. There were more staff in cubicles than patients.

After a few months I was still suffering acute back pain - wrist was fine. My GP refused to refer for physio or further investigation because I had relatively good movement. I asked for a private referral. The T1 fractured by over 40% on the day of the accident.

There was so much wrong on so many levels it was shocking. Eventually I got a reasonably full apology, probably because I am well educated and articulate. I would be very concerned for anyone less able and more Ill at that hospital and suspect it is reflected throughout the UK. An extraordinary amount of both clinical time and then my time was wasted.

The NHS is not fit for purpose. It has become incrementally worse year on year since the day it started. It is everything to do with attitude and organisation and less imo about funding.

If I were the OP I would be contacting my MP and PALS and waiting at the hospital for news.

BattenbergdowntheHatches · 04/04/2022 12:20

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WellNotReally · 04/04/2022 12:20

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@chuffoff if hospitals could be trusted perhaps some of the Ockenden recommendations wouldn't be necessary. Ockenden didn't happen due to lack of resources; it happened due to incompetent and poor care- as happened in East Kent and decades ago Bristol. Does that not strike you as worse than hospital employees having to pitch in?

Like a pp, we also have a home in France. There is not much difference between GDP in the UK and France. The difference in standards is extraordinary and in France's favour.

The UK issue is that because the NHS is "free" a culture of worship has been curated where those who worknfor the NHS behave as though patients are nothing more than supplicants who should be grateful for sub optimal care.

Vive la revolution.[/quote]
Yes, another one with experience of French healthcare here, it's fantastic. However, it does need to be said that France puts more into their health service per head, and then there's the cost of the mutuelle to factor in for the patient/employer.

OP I'm so sorry that your mother is going through this and is still on a trolley. All I can suggest is calling PALS and emailing the CX.

PostMenPatWithACat · 04/04/2022 12:21

T12.

BattenbergdowntheHatches · 04/04/2022 12:24

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