… to wonder why people continue having more children if they cannot cope with the ones that they already have?

[NetflixMom21]

… or am I just being extremely judgemental?

A couple of recent interactions and conversations with people that I know has got me thinking about this. In one situation; the person in question already has a couple of children plus a couple of stepchildren which they have 50% of the time, they are always complaining of having no money, they have openly said that they max out their credit cards to survive and pay their bills every month and are in a lot of debt because of it… now they have just announced that they are having another child.

In the second situation; the person in question has 5 children. The first child was born with a severe disability and they were told that it could possibly be genetic and that if they had anymore children, those children could have a disability too. The second child was also born with a disability, but not as severe as the first. The person then went onto having 3 more children, of which, another child has a similar disability to the first 2. So 3 out of 5 children are disabled. This person now admits that they are unable to cope and it massively impacts on the care that they are able to give their children.

In the third situation; someone that I know was born with cystic fibrosis (they are the first born child of the family). They nearly died as a young child and was only just about saved by a lung transplant which they were incredibly lucky to get. The parents have gone on to have more and more children, even though they know that they have the gene for cystic fibrosis and any child that they have may be born with it too and after watching how badly their first child has suffered. Well another child has been born with it, and suffers horrendously already (they are reception/year 1 age) and unless they receive a lung transplant, they might not even make it to a teenager.

My own situation; I have a progressive disability myself and also a child that has a disability. I know that I will never have anymore children (I am looking into surgical procedures to ensure this) because I know that firstly, I will not be able to cope with my own illness and that is not fair on the child especially as I know that there is a possibility of me having another child with a disability, and secondly; I do not know how much independence my child will go onto have as a teenager and adult, and if I had another child, it would impact on the level of care that I am able provide for my child and that isn’t fair on them.

AIBU to wonder why people in these situations continue having more and more children rather than focusing on the ones that they have, and then constantly complain of being unable to cope?!

Maybe they feel that life is worth living even if you have a condition like cystic fibrosis. My dh has a child with CF. I got tested for the gene and i was clear but if i was a carrier i still would have had a baby. Because cf doesn't make your life not worth living.

@GoFishandChips

Most people are short-sighted dimwits

While not sure I'd put it so strongly there does seem to be a lot of people with no forward thinking. Also people who say, "don't worry, the love expands" when people have another, yeah the love might expand but your finances, time, patience and emotional wellbeing doesn't!

I agree. I’m very aware that I often overthink lots of things in my life. Which isn’t always great.

But then I see what happens when people underthink things, and then I’m very glad I’m the opposite!

* I agree OP, there’s no way I’d continue to have children if I was told they were very likely to be born with a disability.*

^This. It is very selfish of parents who do this and I completely judge them for it.

@habibihabibi

Perhaps low levels of intelligence ? It doesn't take much insight to see the world is already over populated. I am particularly baffled by women who have kids to multiple partners who then do not support them. It's half a century or more since contraception liberated women yet still kids are collected up like souvenirs from bad holidays.

I completely agree here.

Time and time again on here are women complaining they fell pregnant after a short time with a time waster/ abuser/ cheater/ useless dad and I can't understand how in this day and age this still happens. Being sexually active for 22 years and I've only gotten pregnant twice when I wanted to.

It's complex. I was in a terrible position to have my first child. But I felt such a strong drive to have the baby, the thought of aborting was heartbreaking and I couldn't do it. If I'd had my first baby 10 years later they'd have had an entirely different childhood. But it is what it is.

I also struggle to understand why someone struggling to cope with a child with disabilities would carry on to have another, or multiple more children. Maybe they're very optimistic by nature. Or very passive types who let life happen to them. Maybe they think that in later years the children can help support each other. Who knows. There could be different reasons for every family.

@Whatwouldscullydo I know, right? I was refused it once by the grade a twat at my local pharmacist and luckily managed to get a drs appointment in time to have the coil fitted (bloody painful, obviously) but I was really lucky to have that back up option. Have since had it a few more times after condoms split and it was much easier to get hold of but it's not a universally easy experience at all. And if anyone is wondering if I complained, no I'd didn't because I was too busy focusing on sorting out the bloody issue and I was young and inexperienced.

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

I agree it is utterly irresponsible and unfortunately many people simply are that. However, there is no scenario where you can do anything about it without becoming unbearably totalitarian. I do think those who are proclaiming you are being judgemental should think perhaps that the suffering of children is exactly where the judgment needs to start.

Well put. The consequences of trying to stop people having as many kids as they want are far more harmful to society than putting up with irresponsible parents. But that doesn't mean that we can't judge irresponsible parents.

Lots of MNetters seem to live in a bubble and have no idea what some children go through. I work with some families where the kids have no mattresses or toothbrushes, because all the money goes on booze and drugs. Anything that is given to the kids gets sold. The baby is in a piss-soaked nappy all day, It's complicated - the parents of these kids have often grown up in a similar household, and are reproducing the trauma they themselves experienced. But I don't think that excuses the complete lack of interest in providing care for their children.

@Manekinek0

Look back through history. People have always had children, even in the darkest of times, or we wouldn't be here today.

Yes but there weren't many options back then for preventing pregnancy as there are now.

There are 4 women in my crappy estate who have at least 4 children and their lives look utterly miserable. They have nasty partners and presumably can't get out. Better the devil you know I suspect.

And, to be clear, despite being absolutely paranoid about getting the morning after pill when I think I needed it I've still had two unplanned pregnancies because unfortunately I didn't know I ovulate at weird times and get pregnant really easily. Friends are similar, some people just don't know they don't fit the safe sex contraceptive mould.

[quote Echobelly]@godmum56 - I don't think it's that batshit under the circumstances, it's just a way of living your life around your kids when that may be pretty much the only option you have anyway. Plus, more help as they're older and someone/several someones to help the most disabled sibling when you're gone, perhaps - which can be a massive worry.[/quote]
how is reducing your income per head of family and increasing your workload exponentially EVER sensible? And bearing children in the hope of binding a burden onto their backs is plain cruel.

Because people are naive...
And sometimes just plain selfish... and maybe sometimes just lack the intelectual capacity to comprehend what they are doing

@RJnomore1

You know, sometimes people are just desperate to be loved as well.

I think if anything that makes it worse That's such an unfair expectation to impose on children. I understand that it's often subconscious, but it's not a factor that mitigates the impact of bringing children into unsuitable circumstance or that makes doing so OK.

@habibihabibi
"kids are collected up like souvenirs from bad holidays."

great description.

Plus, more help as they're older and someone/several someones to help the most disabled sibling when you're gone, perhaps - which can be a massive worry.

Having kids so they can grow up to be carers for you or their disabled siblings is totally fucked up.

YANBU. Some people are too selfish to put aside their own wants for the greater good or the interests of their children, some feel they are entitled to have children they cannot reasonably hope to support or care for properly, and some are not intelligent or educated enough to make wise or informed decisions. It's a sad truth.

Yes, I judge them.

@Nobodycarestakeitelsewhere

Maybe they feel that life is worth living even if you have a condition like cystic fibrosis. My dh has a child with CF. I got tested for the gene and i was clear but if i was a carrier i still would have had a baby. Because cf doesn't make your life not worth living.

but that child you would have had is only a putative child. I strongly believe that never having lived is better than living a life with such a nasty condition. Also for you with no other lving child in the relationship, you could have IVF with genetic screening.

I am absolutely NOT pro eugenics but how fair is it to deliberately choose to potentially dump the burden of CF on an unborn child?

It's complex. I was in a terrible position to have my first child. But I felt such a strong drive to have the baby, the thought of aborting was heartbreaking and I couldn't do it. If I'd had my first baby 10 years later they'd have had an entirely different childhood. But it is what it is.

See I feel that's a different situation and I wouldn't judge that, I also wouldn't judge a young girl who gets pregnant because she thinks have a baby will fix something, mistakes happen, circumstances change BUT I do judge when people continue to have children in these situations rather than focusing on giving the best life and opportunities to the existing child.

I agree OP.
I know a young woman with 3 kids. 2 are disabled to the extent she needs to rely on respite care etc and has a very challenging life. She can't work, she can barely get out of the house.
She entered a (brief) new relationship and posted a meme on FB of a hunky guy cuddling a new baby with the words "All I want in the world" and I just thought - are you MAD?!

I agree OP. I know of a family where there are 7 children, 4 under 4 and then ranging to 9. Father also has another child he doesn’t see. Mother has many health conditions and it appears each of the children have health ailments too (many brought on by her medication in pregnancy). There barely seems to be a week go by without at least 1 of the children being taken to A&E. Mother reports she suffers from various mental health conditions that stop her leaving the house so the burden of these hospital visits fall on extended family as it’s always ‘an emergency’. However, Mum is able to go on date nights and hairdressers appointments etc. Yes, it’s their own choice and human rights to make these choices in having all of these children, but the implication on wider family and the health system is huge! So yes, I do judge whether that makes a bad person or not.

And if anyone is wondering if I complained, no I'd didn't because I was too busy focusing on sorting out the bloody issue and I was young and inexperienced

It took me years to think hang on a.momute. hospitals deal with rape patients and those who need treatment that would hurt a baby and of they had unprotected sex a few hours ago the MAP might ne a good idea, all the time. I dont believe they wouldn't have had any..

@Branleuse

its probably to do with the fact that most heterosexual women in a sexual relationship with a man get pregnant sometimes, and people can be funny about getting abortions.

Id be really surprised if people who really didnt cope with their family would go out of their way to plan more children, but more likely they just continue with unplanned pregnancies

fail to plan.....plan to fail

Yanbu and many people have babies for the wrong,selfish reasons,to try to keep a broken relationship going,to get accommodation and benefits,to obtain a "right to live ' in another country,to keep a partner with them etc with little thought given to the actual care and love a baby requires 24/7.
For those with a genetic condition it must be extremely hard to accept no children if you want them and a brave decision to make.🌈

To provide some balance regarding health issues. I'm currently going through IVF to avoid passing on a genetic condition. Despite being fertile, IVF hasn't worked out for me yet. My three NHS rounds have failed and I'm now paying circa £50k to do more rounds privately. If these don't work, I will accept the life I have and start on long lasting contraception. And yes, I'm aware of other routes, but none of these are palatable to me. As context, DH and I are high earners and I have a job that makes it relatively straightforward to fit in all the appointments.

However... despite being a very logical, rational, educated and I'd say disciplined person, the route I've taken, and the cards I've been dealt, cause me a great deal of pain. So I can totally understand how others that could pass on a health condition but without all the advantages I have might make different choices. It's so easy to say "just don't have children" when it's not you, or your life. And many health conditions have a spectrum in terms of how they present themselves and the impact they have, so it's often not black and white.

Ive never forgotten a client demanding to know how her children caught fetal alcohol syndrome… the penny doesn’t usually drop at all