… to wonder why people continue having more children if they cannot cope with the ones that they already have?

[NetflixMom21]

… or am I just being extremely judgemental?

A couple of recent interactions and conversations with people that I know has got me thinking about this. In one situation; the person in question already has a couple of children plus a couple of stepchildren which they have 50% of the time, they are always complaining of having no money, they have openly said that they max out their credit cards to survive and pay their bills every month and are in a lot of debt because of it… now they have just announced that they are having another child.

In the second situation; the person in question has 5 children. The first child was born with a severe disability and they were told that it could possibly be genetic and that if they had anymore children, those children could have a disability too. The second child was also born with a disability, but not as severe as the first. The person then went onto having 3 more children, of which, another child has a similar disability to the first 2. So 3 out of 5 children are disabled. This person now admits that they are unable to cope and it massively impacts on the care that they are able to give their children.

In the third situation; someone that I know was born with cystic fibrosis (they are the first born child of the family). They nearly died as a young child and was only just about saved by a lung transplant which they were incredibly lucky to get. The parents have gone on to have more and more children, even though they know that they have the gene for cystic fibrosis and any child that they have may be born with it too and after watching how badly their first child has suffered. Well another child has been born with it, and suffers horrendously already (they are reception/year 1 age) and unless they receive a lung transplant, they might not even make it to a teenager.

My own situation; I have a progressive disability myself and also a child that has a disability. I know that I will never have anymore children (I am looking into surgical procedures to ensure this) because I know that firstly, I will not be able to cope with my own illness and that is not fair on the child especially as I know that there is a possibility of me having another child with a disability, and secondly; I do not know how much independence my child will go onto have as a teenager and adult, and if I had another child, it would impact on the level of care that I am able provide for my child and that isn’t fair on them.

AIBU to wonder why people in these situations continue having more and more children rather than focusing on the ones that they have, and then constantly complain of being unable to cope?!

Because they can
And anything that would involve reducing the scope of that fact is never going to happen because that would be even worse

Paradoxically, the necessary ingredients for an ostensibly civilised society permit opposing behaviours on individual levels where discretion and choice prevail.

I completely agree with you OP. I have no idea why people who complain about their lot continue to reproduce. It’s like continuing to poking yourself in the eye whilst complaining it hurts!

I also judge these people but since having my own dc I understand somewhat.

I live a middle class life but I've never had never close friends, done many exciting things, or done well at career. But when I was pregnant, so many people were congratulating me, talking to me. I didn't have to think about work, relationships, or other life problems - I put all that on hold mentally and just focused on the baby. With a newborn people were saying how great I was doing - a compliment I've never received before in any area of life. So I can see how some people that haven't had many achievements and have a lot of stressors find having a baby appealing.

Not that this excuses it of course.

YANBU

Nothing wrong with judging, we all do it one way or another and I agree with you OP.

100% agree @NetflixMom21 but you should never have posted these thoughts on here.

Of course it's not the business of anybody but the parents if, and how many, children they choose to have, regardless of their situation.

But you/we can (privately, of course) think what we like about it, I suppose.

Yanbu.

Im a parent of disabled children too (( one year gap so one was diagnosed as one was due)) and I get extremely frustrated with families who take this risk and bestow the sad fact is their existing disabled children pay the consequences.

Some refuse genetic testing to reduce the risk because they'd never abort...... Which is great. But they arent the ones suffeeing and in some cases facing a lifetime of agony until they finally get peace when they die. It's incredibly selfish to not prioritise children already here when planning more..... But it's even more selfish when those children already have huge struggles their parents can never really understand because they arent living with them. Theyre supporting them, but they arent the ones in real pain.

Just because some woman can have children doesn't mean they should. I don't think many really think about the impact their choices will have on their kids ie growing up in poverty. It's not enough to love kids they need things and those things cost money.

So many parents complain about the cost of childcare etc surely they knew that before having them? Perhaps the need to be a parent outweighs all else.

@FrankLeeSpeaking

Of course it's not the business of anybody but the parents if, and how many, children they choose to have, regardless of their situation.

But you/we can (privately, of course) think what we like about it, I suppose.

If they cant cope with them (which is what the OP is about) then it is absolutely other people's business.

A lot of this thread is incredibly ableist. Can't believe people are saying that there's no way they would have a child if they had "a disability" and disabled people shouldn't have children.

@Thesefeetaremadeforwalking

I used to work with Health Visitors.

They used to spend 99% of their time dealing with 1% of their caseload.

These were families that drank, smoked, had multiple enuretic children, changed partners regularly (and had children with them), filthy houses, no parenting skills, gave the kids a bowl of smarties for breakfast, a beefburger in a bun was 'Sunday Lunch'.

They had help claiming benefits, advice on contraception, input from Social Services but despite this most of them had had at least one child taken off them by Social Services.

When one family was refused a biggest house because they were pregnant they burned their house down.

I'm glad I wasn't responsible for trying to sort these people out.

It wasn't Mick and Mairead Philpott was it?

I agree. It’s madness. I’ve got two and felt like I was pushing my luck to come out with a healthy baby.

I often wonder this too about a school Mum. I only ever see her on the school run so snippets of her life and I know the school run can be stressful in itself. She has 4 children, the eldest of which is severely disabled. She just never seems to be able to cope with them at all and snaps and swears at them constantly. I’ve heard her telling the youngest (around 2) to shut the fuck up more than once now. I have no idea why someone who clearly struggles to parent so much keeps having children. I don’t think I’d cope with a disabled child and I would stop at one if my eldest was disabled much like you have.

@Belladonna12

A lot of this thread is incredibly ableist. Can't believe people are saying that there's no way they would have a child if they had "a disability" and disabled people shouldn't have children.

I don't see anywhere where either of those things have been said.

I work in a school and I ask the same question that the OP does. I don't understand why people have DC that they then barely parent (can afford fags and a new smartphone but don't feed the DC breakfast, or provide a winter coat, never hear the child read). It's not to do with income, it's to do with not giving a shit.

But we live, thankfully, in a liberal democracy, so I'm not sure what we can do about it, beyond educating the next generation to understand that DC are a serious undertaking.

I'm with the OP. My friends have kids toddler age, they're forever winging about their lack of money, they never get to see their other half without the kids, they've not been out in forever etc and I'm there like "you literally chose this life". I chose not to have them and as a result of this I am much more financially better off, I'm pretty sure they hate this as they like to make little digs about their offspring not being allowed round to my house etc.
As much as I love them and they're my friends.. they made their bed.

I didn't read past the second sentence. Yes you are being extremely judgemental, it's none of your business and if you can't lend a sympathetic ear then just stay out of it entirely. I struggled to cope with two when I had a very high needs baby and my son was three. Should I have stopped at one? Or would I have had your judgement for that too?

My mums eldest sister had 6 children. Her DH had mh issues and never worked a day in his life and later got hit by a car in the late 70s then died. My aunt was a widow in her early 30s with 6 children to feed which impacted her mh as well. She apparently used to fight with my mum and her family everyday because she couldn't cope because it was somehow their fault.

My mum and her family used to help my aunt and cousins out financially and baby sit for them all the time while they also had very little for themselves. My aunt was utterly miserable and she still is. My mums own words that she should have stopped at 1 or 2 knowing her DH. Why she continued having kids still baffles us and could have stopped a lot issues that came along with having 6 children rather than 1-2 which life would have been much easier for my aunt, her kids and my mums family.

@BourbonVanilla
I bet they hope they will be given a bigger house because they and their kids "really need" it.
They need stuff, so someone else has to provide it.
Entitlement and lack of personal responsibility.
Yes, there was a woman on the Council House Swap programme who was very over crowded and had had another baby. She said she thought they would just get moved. It's so naive, how can people not know about the housing crisis and the size of waiting lists?

I absolutely don't understand some people, and that does make me judgemental. Someone I know has had their children taken into care. She loves those kids and they are her world, and she didn't cause them direct harm. But she made life choices which put them into danger and meant they were exposes to horrible experiences. And I just don't understand how a loving parent could do that. She takes no responsibility for the awful experience of having her children taken off her. I had an awful upbringing in many ways, and made many mistakes in young adulthood, but I think I was always fundamentally able to avoid truly self destructive decisions, and some people just don't seem to be able to.

YANBU

I agree 100% OP.

Why on earth do people have children when they know there is a strong possibility of that child having a life limiting disability? It’s absolutely cruel to that poor child (especially the ones in your third scenario). How CAN parents be so cruel as to bring probable early death and immense suffering to their children?

I sort of understand your point but as neither of my children were planned then I'm certainly not one to judge I was already struggling with my first and became pregnant again when she was only six months old. Cried my eyes out when I found out but realistically we had been lax with contraception so I don't know what I was thinking would happen?!

Became pregnant again two years later but that was a genuine contraception failure. I had a termination. My husband wasn't happy about it but I knew I was already stretched to my limit and it was a somewhat easy decision for me to make. When I see friends/family members having more and more DC while struggling I do have the same thoughts you have. Why do they go ahead? But I appreciate accidents happen (aren't 60% of pregnancies worldwide unplanned?) and abortion is not an option for many women. Particularly where I live where it's only been legalised for a few years. The Catholic guilt remains strong and though most aren't religious anymore those ideals are embedded in the culture. Which also explains the large families and general lack of agency around family planning.

Many women who have suffered trauma as children try to heal their own pain by having children.
Except this doesnt work but they keep going.
They are likely to be in a toxic/ abusive relationship and so the poverty / poor attainment/ poor parenting spiral keeps turning.