… to wonder why people continue having more children if they cannot cope with the ones that they already have?

[NetflixMom21]

… or am I just being extremely judgemental?

A couple of recent interactions and conversations with people that I know has got me thinking about this. In one situation; the person in question already has a couple of children plus a couple of stepchildren which they have 50% of the time, they are always complaining of having no money, they have openly said that they max out their credit cards to survive and pay their bills every month and are in a lot of debt because of it… now they have just announced that they are having another child.

In the second situation; the person in question has 5 children. The first child was born with a severe disability and they were told that it could possibly be genetic and that if they had anymore children, those children could have a disability too. The second child was also born with a disability, but not as severe as the first. The person then went onto having 3 more children, of which, another child has a similar disability to the first 2. So 3 out of 5 children are disabled. This person now admits that they are unable to cope and it massively impacts on the care that they are able to give their children.

In the third situation; someone that I know was born with cystic fibrosis (they are the first born child of the family). They nearly died as a young child and was only just about saved by a lung transplant which they were incredibly lucky to get. The parents have gone on to have more and more children, even though they know that they have the gene for cystic fibrosis and any child that they have may be born with it too and after watching how badly their first child has suffered. Well another child has been born with it, and suffers horrendously already (they are reception/year 1 age) and unless they receive a lung transplant, they might not even make it to a teenager.

My own situation; I have a progressive disability myself and also a child that has a disability. I know that I will never have anymore children (I am looking into surgical procedures to ensure this) because I know that firstly, I will not be able to cope with my own illness and that is not fair on the child especially as I know that there is a possibility of me having another child with a disability, and secondly; I do not know how much independence my child will go onto have as a teenager and adult, and if I had another child, it would impact on the level of care that I am able provide for my child and that isn’t fair on them.

AIBU to wonder why people in these situations continue having more and more children rather than focusing on the ones that they have, and then constantly complain of being unable to cope?!

Even without the financial side, people make some weird choices where family is concerned, IMO. I used to regularly chat to a Mum at the school gates. Our youngest children left High School on the same day. There was I thinking, wow that's the last school run ever, and kind of savouring it (after some 14 years of schools runs!). She however announced she was pregnant. So, starting ALL OVER AGAIN. I just couldn't get my head around it!

@NetflixMom21

I’m not saying it is anything to do with me, but it drives me nuts hearing people constantly complain that they can’t cope with their situations… when they have created the situations for themselves in these circumstances!

A tinkly little laugh should suffice!

I agree op, so many people selfishly think, l want another baby without considering the security and care they can give that child...

@NetflixMom21Net
"I’m not saying it is anything to do with me, but it drives me nuts hearing people constantly complain that they can’t cope with their situations… when they have created the situations for themselves in these circumstances!"

I'd certainly be hiding them on social media and withdrawing from the friendship. I get if its calss whatsapp or something you can't really back away though

@Belladonna12

A lot of this thread is incredibly ableist. Can't believe people are saying that there's no way they would have a child if they had "a disability" and disabled people shouldn't have children.

Disabilites vastly vary in severity and the people who have said that on thread have explained why they are making choices the way they are given their genetic disability.

I've seen family members being broken and exhausted by a system that gives them the bare minimum of the kind of assistance they require to cope. Their finances and mental health is in tatters. They are round the clock carers and their child has very limited quality of life and has already had decades of daily pain. I'm sure if you asked them, they would do it all again because they love their child.
But they were also smart enough to not risk having another child given there was a 50% chance the next one would be as severely disabled, despite wanting more children.

Go on, judge them for being ableist then.

I agree OP. People can do as they please but I see many people with 2-3 children who say they struggle only to then have more and moan more about how hard it is

Similarly so many people have a houseful of kids and say it's so hectic and stressful then get a dog? And in a lot of cases poor dog is regimes within a couple of months.

I think the thought of having a big family, and a lovely newborn is very tempting but the reality of it is that we all need to know when to stop and how much he can manage.

@newyearnewwname2022

I don’t think these conversations are none of our business - unfortunately it’s tax payers money that has to fund these children’s school places, NHS treatment, maternity leave for the mother, free school meals if eligible etc. and the list goes on. It’s a whole society problem when people have children they can’t care for.

Interesting that so many posters equate “not being able to cope” with low socioeconomic status.

I know of families who are wealthy (earnings top 10%) who can’t cope with their children. Yes, some go on, even when they aren’t already coping, to have more children.

Mums who can’t get out of bed, depressed, very heavy drinkers, etc. Dads who are absent majority of the time, or are in and out of The Priory (mental institution). They continue to have more children. I’d say they aren’t coping with the ones they have when their lives are in this type of turmoil.

"I completely agree with you OP. I have no idea why people who complain about their lot continue to reproduce."

Some people like to complain and will always find something to complain about. If it annoys you then avoid them. The only issue is if the children are not properly cared for.

@S4M3
Of course it effects "wealthier" families too. They can struggle also. However, money always helps in these situations.

(As in they can pay for help, nannies or go on holidays often so the they/the children can chill out) as examples.

[quote Boomboomboomboomboomno]@S4M3
Of course it effects "wealthier" families too. They can struggle also. However, money always helps in these situations.[/quote]
Money often means they aren’t judged for making “bad choices” even though they can’t cope with the children they already have and continue to have more children.

No one implied that more affluent families aren’t affected by bad choices, only many did overtly state the social and economic burden on society which is, of course, remediated by having wealth.

In other words, most people only judge people making these bad decisions when the people being judged are in a lower socioeconomic status.

Because of their financial situation they should not be having more kids, that's the unfortunate truth. (Not actively planning to have kids).

@CounsellorTroi

I also wonder why some women have more children with men they already know to be shit fathers and partners.

Absolutely this.

Totally. They moan about having manchild lazy husbands and being unhappy then they have more kids.

@Dragongirl10

I agree op, so many people selfishly think, l want another baby without considering the security and care they can give that child...

But they are not coming from having the same choices or life skills as others. ACE adverse childhood event which includes bereavement, trauma, poverty and physical or sexual abuse leads to MH issues and making decisions based on unmet needs. Its not a level playing field. Thats why poverty and poor life outcomes filter down the generations.

@RampantIvy

Can those who think the OP is being extremely judgemental defend or justify why it is OK for women to choose to continue to have babies in very unfavourable circumstances?

Agree with this. I feel bad for the children.

But they are not coming from having the same choices or life skills as others. ACE adverse childhood event which includes bereavement, trauma, poverty and physical or sexual abuse leads to MH issues and making decisions based on unmet needs. Its not a level playing field. Thats why poverty and poor life outcomes filter down the generations.

So true, @StEval but you are fighting uphill battle for people to realise the broader and generational social context. Much easier to say people are selfish and feckless.

@Drinkingallthewine I'm not criticising people who decide that they themselves shouldn't have children for whatever reason. It's entirely up to them. I am criticising those (able bodied or disabled) who think who disabled people or people with medical conditions shouldn't have children.

@S4M3

But they are not coming from having the same choices or life skills as others. ACE adverse childhood event which includes bereavement, trauma, poverty and physical or sexual abuse leads to MH issues and making decisions based on unmet needs. Its not a level playing field. Thats why poverty and poor life outcomes filter down the generations.

So true, @StEval but you are fighting uphill battle for people to realise the broader and generational social context. Much easier to say people are selfish and feckless.

Thanks @S4M3 Sadly rather than considering the social context people only focus on their own ego and being right.

@Belladonna12

@Drinkingallthewine I'm not criticising people who decide that they themselves shouldn't have children for whatever reason. It's entirely up to them. I am criticising those (able bodied or disabled) who think who disabled people or people with medical conditions shouldn't have children.

But who said that on the thread?

Clearly better reproductive education is needed.
drug and alcohol education and treatment.
Mental health services
contraceptives for women available as freely as viagra is for men.

Of course all this cost money and services are already stretched. People have more children and makes it worse.

People really shouldn't be having 6/7/8 children but it's happened for centuries and continues to happen.

It's a shame there isn't easily reversible sterilisation. Then people can shag about all they want and then when they really want a baby get the sterilisation reversed. Out there idea.

@shrodingersvaccine

You are being judgey, obviously. Of course some people are just a bit feckless with contraception and then end up with more kids than they maybe planned for. But *@LimeSegment* makes a good point - society (patriarchy) values women most highly when they fall into line, i.e. are pregnant/married to men/mothers. The role that doesn’t threaten patriarchal dominance.

I’m a (not a brag, just as part of this conversation) high achiever. Bought a house young and single, PhD and medical degree and a good job, emigrated alone, independent etc. Literally none of these things are celebrated. The only congratulations I ever received are for relationships/pregnancy/children. I regularly write research grants that bring in amounts in the 6/7 figures, but have only ever had a well done at work for going on maternity. I don’t need a well done medal but it does send a message that my role as a wife/mother is the only one valued.

Until we value women as individuals and for all of their achievements, not just motherhood and marriage, there will be women who are receiving the message that they only have value as wives and mothers and so they will keep having children, whether wise or not.

Agree with this. I'd add to your last sentence that there will be women who are receiving the message that because they cannot have children, they have no value at all and are considered accordingly by society. I'm one of them - I know.

A very long time ago, when these things were allowed, I did some voluntary work at a children's home for a DofE award. There were four siblings, each severely disabled with the same genetic condition. The parents had failed to cope and had all four put into care. So sad.

Interesting that so many posters equate “not being able to cope” with low socioeconomic status

Healthy finances certainly help - you can always throw money at a problem if you have it, like get a cleaner or send the kids to more activities to give yourself space.

But actually I was thinking about the mums I see out with 3-4 kids and they do look completely frazzled and old beyond their years.