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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Carer charging me even though I didn't employ her

207 replies

NickyNora · 29/03/2022 19:42

My son is Autistic.
We use a Carer on a regular basis.
One of his friends from college had an outing recently.
The other child's parent organised the activity and the Carers.

We all use the same Carers.

The other child invited my son and 2 other boys to the outing.

I thought my son was a guest.
He needs almost no help socially now especially when he's comfortable with the environment and company.

Yesterday, I received an invoice for £160 from one of the Carers.

I checked with the parent of the child whose outing it was, that they have already paid the Carer.
The other parent didn't know I was being billed.

AIBU to say to the Carer, that I won't be paying her as I wasn't aware I was being billed?

OP posts:

Soontobe60 · 02/04/2022 09:08

Blimey, all these replies criticising the carer!
The carer has not been paid. By anyone. She assumed that she was there to support OPs son which is understandable. Now she wants to be paid for the hours she’s worked.
It’s between the parents to work out who’s going to pay her. It’s not the carers fault that the parents can’t sort it out.

SafelySoftly · 02/04/2022 09:12

This carer sounds very greedy. Getting paid by 3 people! really unreasonable behaviour. Can you report her?

sonjadog · 02/04/2022 09:14

The carer has been paid. She has been paid by the people who employed her.

I wouldn't pay her, OP. You didn't employ her so why would you pay her.

SolasAnla · 02/04/2022 09:17

@Soontobe60

Blimey, all these replies criticising the carer! The carer has not been paid. By anyone. She assumed that she was there to support OPs son which is understandable. Now she wants to be paid for the hours she’s worked. It’s between the parents to work out who’s going to pay her. It’s not the carers fault that the parents can’t sort it out.

Why should she assume anything. She is working in an area where people are very vulnerable to financial abuse. The OP feels obligated to pay for something she never agreed to pay for as she fears she would loose the carer. The carer made a deal with one person, thats who she should bill. If for no other reason than she will not have to chace the other famalies for the money.

BuanoKubiamVej · 02/04/2022 09:18

@NickyNora can you clarify as the conflicting advice you are getting seems to be based on different people understanding different basic facts here.

My advice has been based on understanding that this carer has already been paid her normal hourly rate for the hours by family 2 who booked her but she is trying to double her wage by billing you for the same hours too.

Other people are giving totally different advice but based on thinking the carer hasn't been paid at all but just turned up with no one asking her to work.

Can you clarify which it is?

TheirTheyre · 02/04/2022 09:20

Don’t pay. You have no contract with her for care on this day. Redder her back to the host parent.

TheirTheyre · 02/04/2022 09:20

*reffer

Blimecory · 02/04/2022 09:20

@Soontobe60

Blimey, all these replies criticising the carer! The carer has not been paid. By anyone. She assumed that she was there to support OPs son which is understandable. Now she wants to be paid for the hours she’s worked. It’s between the parents to work out who’s going to pay her. It’s not the carers fault that the parents can’t sort it out.

The carer has been paid by the hosting parent.

The question is, how much did they pay her? For caring for one, two or three people?

saraclara · 02/04/2022 09:20

I don't get it. Did the organising parent book her or not? If they did, they pay. If they didn't, why did she turn up?

The organising parent can't just say "I didn't know you were being billed" and leave it at that. None of this makes any sense.

NotNotNotMyName · 02/04/2022 09:28

I can’t believe you’re even debating this OP the carer is trying to commit fraud. She has already been paid by the other parent. TBH I’d be questioning why you’d want to employ this woman as a carer for your son ever again. I wouldn’t want someone that dishonest anywhere near my child.

Is she self-employed? How are such carers regulated? Unless there’s been some kind of genuine mistake for which she is able to offer a full apology, you need to report her.

How many other people has she tried to do this to?

nightfairy · 02/04/2022 09:29

That is rotten. He was a guest, and she has been paid. You don't invite someone to an outing, or a party, and then ask them after the fact to pay for themselves. Both host and carer are way out of line.

NotNotNotMyName · 02/04/2022 09:36

“She is working in an area where people are very vulnerable to financial abuse”

OP this carer needs to NOT be a carer anymore. She needs reporting. Who regulates carers?

I’m surprised the other parents involved aren’t as outraged as you.

ivykaty44 · 02/04/2022 09:38

AIBU to say to the Carer, that I won't be paying her as I wasn't aware I was being billed?

if you didn't employee this carer then you do not have any type of contract, therefore they don't have to be paid. Id speak to them and explain you didn't employee them and are not paying for services you haven't requested

Straysocks · 02/04/2022 09:46

OP, I absolutely sympathise with you not wanting to lose the carer - I am also responsible for booking care for my sister and it is incredibly hard to find another trusted person. I absolutely could not agree to spend their budget this way and would explain that you are only able to pay for care that you have actually booked and not retrospectively. Perhaps offer to explore this with the people who issue the budget together with the carer, 'let's talk to the funders to make sure we are both doing the right thing in these circumstances'.

However, do what you need to do based on how it will help you until you can put something else in place. For those that don't depend on this kind of help it may seem crackers to consider agreeing but it is not something you can easily replace and the need for it does not abate. I would start the process of recruiting someone else following this though, for me the trust would be damaged and it is all about the trust.

It is common for 3rd parties to do the admin for budgets/direct payments - often charities get an hr added onto the budget and they take over payroll/hr/insurance for the person who needs care. Your local authority could tell you who they work with. I couldn't do it without this service, it's too time consuming, there are huge legal responsibilities as an employer and put you in this awkward kind of role.

MRex · 02/04/2022 09:49

It's very simple in replying to her: "I didn't book you for that day because I felt that DS didn't need help, you need to talk with whoever booked you about payment based on what you agreed with them."

I would also have a chat with both other sets of parents; it's unclear who booked her, what they said and how much she has been paid. If you had to contribute anything then it should be via whoever booked her if they somehow got confused about what your DS needed.

Blimecory · 02/04/2022 10:00

The hosting parent may have paid her, but just their normal hourly rate for one person. If there were more people there to care for, the carer could well assume she needs to be paid more. That’s up to the hosting parent to sort.

Babyvenusplant · 02/04/2022 10:00

@Soontobe60

Blimey, all these replies criticising the carer! The carer has not been paid. By anyone. She assumed that she was there to support OPs son which is understandable. Now she wants to be paid for the hours she’s worked. It’s between the parents to work out who’s going to pay her. It’s not the carers fault that the parents can’t sort it out.

She has been paid! Go back and read the updates properly, the other parents has paid the carer for what she was employed to do

AlisonDonut · 02/04/2022 10:01

I spoke to the Carer, she seemed to presume, as my son was at the activity, that I was also paying her.

Who asked her to go/who told her the activity was even happening?

NWQM · 02/04/2022 10:03

@NickyNora as another poster has said there is a bit of confusion.....I am not sure if its us reading things differently or you arent sure. If its the latter then I think your starting point is to get formal with everyone and its reasonable to say you are looking into it.

Dont be tempted to pay and get into financial difficulties to keep the carer happy. You can rebuild the relationship based but only if you all feel their is an equitable compromise. Be hard if any of you harbour resentment.

I think you are saying that the commissioning parents are paying the usual hourly rate. For a second child though she charges not double but 50%. You are clear that the other carer was employed to provide 1:1 and isnt querying that 2 others were there. If you pay one carer an uplift that actually isnt necessarily logical.

All comes down to the law but if she can take out a civil claim the usual arrangements would be considered.... On other occasions what happened? Would one parent commission on behalf of you all?

On other occasions do you act as if the children have been invited as guests and the host sorts or do you make arrangements?

I would recommend - if you havent - talking to a Disability Rights Group who advises on personal budgets. You are the custdoian of it for your son. What is it reasonable or right that you pay on his behalf?

Its such a stressful situation for you to be in. There is an assumption in the system that parents can be all knowing about employment law etc etc. Its so very rubbish.

Happy - and potentially able to help more - if you would like to DM.

Do not be tempted to pay until you are sure. This may not go just go away

Walkingalot · 02/04/2022 10:05

Well she presumed wrong! Tell her that you didn't organise this, you didn't ask for care and anyway, she didn't give 1-1 care for either of the 3 boys. The onus was on her to negotiate maybe a higher rate than her normal fee with the parent who organised this, as she had more responsibility, keeping an eye on 3 instead of the usual 1. She can't simply triple her rate either. Also, like any kids party, you don't charge the parents. If there are any extra costs, you state upfront and get agreement.
Don't part with the meagre funds you have because she's being a CF and depriving your DS of money that you have a better need for.

nettie434 · 02/04/2022 10:07

I would normally be very supportive of care workers who are generally underpaid and under appreciated. However, it is not reasonable for her to want to charge you. It is not treble the work to support 3 people doing the same activity.

It would have been reasonable for the worker to have charged slightly more the joint activity and to have sorted this beforehand.

It's a hard decision for you to have to make given that your son is used to her and that this seems to be the first time in 5 years that there has been a problem. Do you think she would really decide not to support your son if it came to the push. She would have to find another client if you did not use her again. Surely if she is self employed and your son receives a direct payment from Adult Services there is no reason why she could not carry on if you were both satisfied with the arrangement?

I agree with the suggestion of using an agency to do payroll for the payments. My friend does this after a worker she no longer uses said he had not been paid when he had.

Flame76 · 02/04/2022 10:18

OP, you need to clarify if the carer has been paid by anyone so far. If not, I feel for you. You absolutely shouldn't have to pay as you didn't book her. She's silly to not check this with you first, if she assumed that's what would happen. You risk losing the carer by not paying or falling out with the host family for insisting they pay, as they booked her. But still, not your fault at all. Both carer and host parents have acted stupidly here, assuming no payment has already been made.

drpet49 · 02/04/2022 10:21

* I can’t believe you’re even debating this OP the carer is trying to commit fraud. She has already been paid by the other parent. TBH I’d be questioning why you’d want to employ this woman as a carer for your son ever again. I wouldn’t want someone that dishonest anywhere near my child.*

^This. I wouldn’t be able trust her after this

sonjadog · 02/04/2022 10:21

The OP says in the opening post that the carer has been paid by the family who organized the day.

lunar1 · 02/04/2022 10:28

I really don't think you should pay her.

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