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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Carer charging me even though I didn't employ her

207 replies

NickyNora · 29/03/2022 19:42

My son is Autistic.
We use a Carer on a regular basis.
One of his friends from college had an outing recently.
The other child's parent organised the activity and the Carers.

We all use the same Carers.

The other child invited my son and 2 other boys to the outing.

I thought my son was a guest.
He needs almost no help socially now especially when he's comfortable with the environment and company.

Yesterday, I received an invoice for £160 from one of the Carers.

I checked with the parent of the child whose outing it was, that they have already paid the Carer.
The other parent didn't know I was being billed.

AIBU to say to the Carer, that I won't be paying her as I wasn't aware I was being billed?

OP posts:
Saltyquiche · 02/04/2022 07:07

Don’t pay.

springtimeishereagain · 02/04/2022 07:11

Who asked your carer to go? Did the parents of Boy 1 pay her? Has she said she will stop working with your ds if you don't pay her?

She's acting dishonestly.

springtimeishereagain · 02/04/2022 07:14

@SolasAnla

Sorry, but a the carers charging a day rate of £64 an hour (124k pa) or did that include event fees?
Where did you get that? Op said £350 for the day of 10.5 hours, which is £33 an hour -twice her usual rate, one for each boy.
Saltyquiche · 02/04/2022 07:18

Op I book caters as part of my job, I would ask them who booked the job and redirect them back to the person who booked.

Sleepyblueocean · 02/04/2022 07:19

She is taking the piss. She should have discussed pay with the person who employed her and expecting to be paid twice at the usual rate is unreasonable because she was not providing the usual service twice. The rate you pay her is for 1:1 care.

Saltyquiche · 02/04/2022 07:20

Two carers, three young men, 10.5 hours

Saltyquiche · 02/04/2022 07:20

At £15 ph

AnnaBegins · 02/04/2022 07:34

If you continued to work with her, would your trust in her be broken? I'd be inclined to tell her that you're considering terminating the relationship due to this broken trust and extortion, and see if she changes her tune. It sounds like she probably enjoys working with you, albeit knowing it will come to an end when your son is a bit older.

Saltyquiche · 02/04/2022 07:35

Sorry just read your update.

If she was supporting the whole group she can still only charge her normal hourly rate to the person who booked her. It’s irrelevant how many people she cared for in the time she worked. Pay depends wholly on the number of hours she worked for the person who booked her and the booker pays.

Redirect her to the booker explaining you didn’t employ her on that day and you were not expecting to be charged

BuanoKubiamVej · 02/04/2022 07:39

She made a mistake. She assumed. If you cave and pay her she will lose this opportunity for a valuable life lesson. It's tough being a carer but it's really important to have clarity as to who is employing you and to do what at all times.

Imagine the shoe was on the other foot. That some disaster had happened during this activity during which your son was seriously injured. If you had employed her to provide support services it might be that you'd be holding her responsible and claiming against her professional indemnity insurance for the consequences of such a disaster. But because you didn't employ her and there was no proof that she had any responsibility towards your son, and so not covered by any such insurance.

It's vital for all forms of work that everyone is clear who has been asked to do what by whom and for what pay. Ideally this should be written down, but verbal agreements can be valid if the are clear. Anyone doing work without any such agreement is doing so without any protection. She needs to understand that.

Getting paid double for looking after 2 clients is totally inappropriate anyway. She's trying to charge you the same as she would for 1:1 care when that isn't the service she provided. It doesn't matter what the fair cost should be because you didn't commission ant such service anyway but she's utterly taking the piss.

But it's way better for her in the long run to learn she can't treat people like this.

IncompleteSenten · 02/04/2022 07:43

You need to be firm. You pay her for hours you book. Ask her who booked her? Tell her that the person who booked her for those hours pays her for those hours.

londonrach · 02/04/2022 07:49

Tbh I'm not sure I trust someone who threatened you with pay or I don't work for you again when you didn't book her. I wouldn't pay her as you didn't book her and she already been paid and her behaviour is questionable now. I don't know how hard it is to get a carer though.

Mindymomo · 02/04/2022 08:07

It’s a difficult situation, you don’t want to pay for something your DS didn’t necessarily need, nor did you book carer yourself for this, but on the other hand someone booked carer and they should expect to be paid, no matter what the cost is. If you don’t want to disrupt your DS life with carer, I think you should offer to pay something, but if you think it’s going to cause problems going forward, then you may have to pay carer, in full, but make it clear that if she’s needed for anything in the future, she has to check with you who is paying and whether your DS actually needs a carer for the activity.

VagueSemblance · 02/04/2022 08:26

I still don't follow. Is this 2 carers, one who was booked by friend''s parent and paid by them, and a second carer who turned up spontaneously without talking to either parent, and is now expecting to be paid?

If so and she genuinely worked all the hours then I can only suggest you pay her for those hours but cut 10 hours from the time you use her this month. Far from ideal I know but it would at least make it partly her problem without hopefully alienating her completely. She has you over a barrel.

Being surprised you were charged sounds like a really strange reaction from the other parent, if she was a second carer. Either the other parent had booked her, and would be unsurprised by a charge, or they hadn't in which case they'd be surprised by her turning up but not by you being charged.

If it's one carer demanding £30ph then you're in a stronger position and I'd understand the parents reaction more.

10.5 hours is a big day out. Theme park?

BuanoKubiamVej · 02/04/2022 08:32

The pay scale of £15 an hour for 1:1 care does not translate to being paid £30 an hour for 1:2 care (I am assuming that the other carer was doing 1:1 for the client with higher needs). In a children's nanny situation a nanny who is paid £12 per hour to look after the child of one family might reasonably choose to up their fee to maybe £15 per hour to cover both kids if looking after a child from another family too but couldn't get away with charging £24 per hour because neither child is getting 1:1 attention.

If you did decide to give her anything, it should be on the basis that she gets a modest uplift from her normal 1:1 rate for looking out for 2 clients, and you reimburse the other family to share the cost between you. So maybe £18/h is a reasonable wage for giving 1:2 care (paid £9 from each family) so you would give her £32 and give the other family £64 because they've already paid her full rate for a 1:1 service that they didn't receive.

But honestly I don't think you should do this at all. This is just the maths that I would have recommended if this had been discussed and agreed in advance. I think it's totally inappropriate to pay her anything under the circumstances.

TigerLilyTail · 02/04/2022 08:36

I would send her an email or text so explain that she has misunderstood and that she was hired by A to take care of A's son. You did not hire her for this occasion and there was no agreement with you so you will not be paying.

If you are almost at the end of your agreement then surely it doesn't matter so much anyway.

cansu · 02/04/2022 08:38

I would not pay her. I understand you don't want to lose her but she is taking the piss and I think is doing so because she knows she can get awY with it.
Tell her honestly that your ds cannot afford it. How much do you use her? How long for at a time? If she does stop working for you then she is also losing money so that is her choice.

EthelTheAardvark · 02/04/2022 08:39

Did the other parent tell her what she was being booked for, how many young people would be there, and that she would only have to care for their son and not any of the guests?

If you're going to have to stop the arrangement with this carer soon anyway, does it matter if it stops now?

5zeds · 02/04/2022 08:42

Don’t pay her if you didn’t book her. Who did?

hollyivysaurus · 02/04/2022 08:44

That’s a tough one. I’d send the message querying it, she’s obviously wrongly assumed (at best) or is chancing it (at worst). If she’s a good carer that you want to keep working with (and you’re okay for money) I’d offer her something as recognition that she had been supporting multiple people and that this once there was a misunderstanding, but in future you wanted to make sure things were really clear for everyone.

willieverlearn100 · 02/04/2022 08:44

I would make it clear to her - although my son was at the activity, all bookings were made by the other parents as you didn't require a carer on this occasion. I really wouldn't be paying this. She didn't even discuss with you. Just billed you because he was there. It's really cheeky.

Afterallsbeensaidanddone · 02/04/2022 08:49

you are almost at the end of your agreement then surely it doesn't matter so much anyway.

No I think the carer becomes more needed as a result of moving to adults.

Soontobe60 · 02/04/2022 08:52

@TidyDancer

So she's already been paid by the organising parent? How is she justifying charging you?
I read it that no one has paid her! The other parent organised the carers, this carer assumed it was the OP who’d be paying her as it was her son she was supporting, whereas in reality it should have been the other parent who booked her that should have paid her.

OP, I think you need to clarify this with both the carer and the other parent. You’ve both made assumptions without discussing it beforehand.
Other parent: “Nicky, would your ds like to go on a trip with my DS?”
Nicky: “yes please”
OP: “excellent. Should I organise the carers?”
Nicky: “i don’t think my DS will need support on this trip?”

Either way, the carer needs to be paid by someone.

Soontobe60 · 02/04/2022 08:52

@cansu

I would not pay her. I understand you don't want to lose her but she is taking the piss and I think is doing so because she knows she can get awY with it. Tell her honestly that your ds cannot afford it. How much do you use her? How long for at a time? If she does stop working for you then she is also losing money so that is her choice.
She’s not been paid at all!
MadeForThis · 02/04/2022 08:54

I would challenger her 100%

She's been paid her 1:1 rate so far by both other parents. As I understand she was actually employed by both.

You didn't employ her. The fact that your son was there does not entitle her to also bill you. Presumably the first parent told her who would be there when she hired her.