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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that Kier Starmer is spineless?

360 replies

LittleWhingingWoman · 29/03/2022 19:06

I'm a long time Labour supporter.
Not anymore.
Kier Starmer was asked if women have penises.
He couldn't answer.

I've had enough of this gaslighting.
How can I vote for a party that is led by this man?
How, in 2022, can a candidate who hopes to be pm not be able to say what a woman is?

AIBU to think he knows FULL WELL what a woman is but is too much of a coward to say. The men threatening and bullying Rosie Duffield certainly know what a woman is.

And I know a penis when I see one.

mobile.twitter.com/keir_starmer

OP posts:
tobee · 30/03/2022 06:12

@Baddit

(And yes I know the thread is about Starmer and that my views won't be well received on here but honestly the obsession about this one narrow issue on here is a bit strange?)
You know this is actually happening? And yet you minimise it.
nolongersurprised · 30/03/2022 06:51

but honestly the obsession about this one narrow issue on here is a bit strange?

I used to think this but now I see the trans rights’ activists as a subset of men’s rights’ activism.

Women and girls have different needs to men and boys. There are sex specific biological differences and, because nearly all violent offenders are male, women and girls need separate toilets, crisis centres and prisons. A male puberty confers athletic advantages so, to celebrate and encourage women and girls in sport, they (we) have a separate category.

As soon as “woman” also includes “men” then there are no female only categories anymore, everything is mixed-sex.

Instantnoodles · 30/03/2022 06:55

I'm a lifelong Labour voter and they lost me. Why would I vote for a party that won't protect women's rights? It's too fundamental an issue. I won't vote Tory so am politically homeless.

NashvilleQueen · 30/03/2022 06:59

Labour have made a total mess of this and I'm appalled at how we have ended up in this place.

That said there's not a chance in hell I would vote Tory and the fact that Johnson has this issue right doesn't excuse every other wrong he has been responsible for.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/03/2022 07:00

Abstention is a vote for the incumbent government and for the most part no one is going to give much of a fuck what you right on your spoilt ballots, so a master class in futility all round

spacehardware · 30/03/2022 07:00

"This is an absolute non-issue and mumsnet sadly is getting a reputation for being a haven for hysterical transphobes"

It's a non-issue for women to be told they don't exist? For our protections under the equality act to be eroded?

My vote is mine snd I'm not going to cast it to the order of someone who calls women hysterical or transphobes for thinking female people are real. Fuck off tbh

pilates · 30/03/2022 07:06

YANBU

MsDataPotata · 30/03/2022 07:16

I'm in a labour heartland & women here are realising this is the tip of a very large iceberg of pushback against women's rights. We're not even anywhere near equality yet (the subject of covid vaccines affecting periods still not being officially acknowledged & investigated due to inequalities in medicine to name one of many very recent issues). How can anyone who doesn't understand that our biology is the root of our oppression properly represent our interests? It's a massive issue with far reaching repercussions. I'm a menopausal single mother. Those 2 issues are shaping & dictating my life choices & chances. They're also issues that affect a huge number of women but not a single transwoman. If men are allowed to throw feminine presenting men out of 'manhood' it'll only further entrench & reinforce the patriarchy. Woman have had to absorb stereotypical male activities into their lives (I work full time time, I'm financially independent) so why shouldn't we expect the same from men? It shouldn't be a case of whomever rocks the cradle is a woman. You'll never convince me this isn't just a way for men to slope out of their fair share of unpaid labour.

Rinatinabina · 30/03/2022 07:17

I used to be on the other side of this because I didn’t understand how some men us these fudges to exploit and attack women or breach their boundaries. If I’m honest I kinda assumed that being trans was so hard no-one would do it just for kicks and assume the fetishists wouldn’t risk getting a kicking by doing things like walking around butt naked in a womans changing room. I was absolutely wrong. So wrong.

The big thing that changed for me is that you don’t need dysphoria to be classed as trans, you can be a transvestite, a drag queen etc, bloke with a fetish basically any man in non gender conforming clothes can now be classed as a woman. It got really silly when men in mens clothes claimed to be women and lesbians. I think it exposed the absurdity to me

The demanding access to lesbian sex lives really started tipping me over the edge (the infamous cotton ceiling and calling homosexuals genital fetishists - obviously specifically lesbians).

Then the fact that people with actual convictions for sex offences were being put in the womens estate in prisons. I mean if that isn’t a clear fuck you to women I don’t know what is. His feelings are more important that your increased likelihood to be sexually assaulted..

Thats why its not a single issue as some people are claiming, it touches on all those times and places that women need to be in single sex places for their safety, dignity and privacy. Once those rights are gone they will be impossible to get back.

Clearly this stuff is happening under a tory government so it’s not that they are in the clear but they are not proposing to go full pelt self ID. Which will completely and utterly destroy womens rights to single sex services/spaces. There is still space under the tories to push back whereas the impression i get is voting for labour will guarantee these changes.

DrSbaitso · 30/03/2022 07:23

but honestly the obsession about this one narrow issue on here is a bit strange?

I used to agree with you.

Joystir59 · 30/03/2022 07:32

The only reason he's given media time is because he's neoliberal and no threat to the Tories. The Tories are however a much bigger threat in reality to the wellbeing of women and children because they keep so many of them locked in poverty. So I will vote Labour. Boris says he knows what a woman is, but him and his party are happy to keep them living in poverty with a severely underfunded NHS, under funded education and dire benefits situation. Labour will look after women and children better. I'm not being hoodwinked by Boris cleverly stating he knows what a woman is. Will Boris actually deliver on practical steps to better support women? I doubt it. Labour will tackle the causes if poverty and improve the lots of women and children at the breadline.

billycorn · 30/03/2022 07:35

It's not an obsession and certainly not a narrow issue. Trans activists are largely made up of people who were privileged white males who have now transitioned to trans women.
I see it as men's rights' activism as nolongersuprised as pointed out.

DrSbaitso · 30/03/2022 07:47

I thought people were being ridiculous when they said women were being erased and that it was obvious "trans women are women" wasn't supposed to be taken literally.

Now our leading politicians don't know what a woman is, male people are taking opportunities and medals meant for women and getting opportunities to assault women in prison because they "are women", and a famous female author, and a famous female former athlete, are being threatened and abused every day because they're saying something about it.

If this weren't happening to women, you would be noticing it far more. Why is it so easy to ignore?

Swayingpalmtrees · 30/03/2022 07:50

Yes he is spineless.

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 30/03/2022 07:51

@JustAnotherPoster00

Abstention is a vote for the incumbent government and for the most part no one is going to give much of a fuck what you right on your spoilt ballots, so a master class in futility all round
Depends on the constituency doesn't it (abstention)? In many places it would make fuck all difference due to our shit electoral system.
spacehardware · 30/03/2022 07:54

Spoiled ballots are inspected by the acting returning officer, candidates snd their agents to confirm all agree they are in fact spoiled and can't be construed as a valid vote. If hundreds of ballot papers turned up in each count with "Labour losing women" on them, believe me it would get back to central office.

PenStation · 30/03/2022 08:03

Starmer and Labour more generally are a disgrace. With the open corruption and contempt for the public shown by the conservatives, they should be kicking at an open goal with the electorate. They are bogged down in identity politics whilst the Tories have been mismanaging the NHS, sitting on their heels with the UK’s energy strategy, doing too little around green infrastructure, punishing the poor with their fiscal policies. I am politically homeless too.

PenStation · 30/03/2022 08:09

The trans thing is part of a rollback of human rights and protections for UK citizens. We’ve already had cuts to legal aid preventing people accessing justice, we’ve had a dogged determination to push through legislation curtailing protest and the rights of migrants. Now Sunak has overseen a real terms cut to the benefits of some of the most vulnerable people in the UK. Trans women are biologically men, trans men are biologically women. It shouldn’t be at all controversial to say this because it is factual, and I know it’s factual because of my professional training. And yet my rights to even state this as fact are described as a belief and had to be fought for in court.

Alexandra2001 · 30/03/2022 08:13

300 babies died due to poor treatment in 2 NHS maternity units, presumably their mothers are women, their rights get trumped by a trans argument?

So we get yet another thread on what Labour say on Trans rights.

Its like re arranging the deck chairs on the Titantic by people who don't have much else to worry about, like poverty, domestic violence, lack of schooling, childcare, wage inequality, lack of access to healthcare, housing, access to justice for sexual assault etc etc.

Presumably a woman who undergoes a Metoidioplasty/Phalloplasty is a female with a penis?

Starmer is right, its a complex issue, he also stated he wants women only spaces to stay that way.

Andante57 · 30/03/2022 08:15

Why does everyone fear these people SOOO much? How is the UK population cowering to a "minority" who is smaller than any other group, yet exerts SO MUCH POWER

I’ve often wondered that.

Papayamya · 30/03/2022 08:15

This is an absolute non-issue and mumsnet sadly is getting a reputation for being a haven for hysterical transphobes.

Ah yes, women are hysterical, and being concerned for and standing up for women's rights equals transphobia eh.

This is being used by the conservatives as smokescreen to mask their shameful and disastrous leadership of this country:

Not really, labour are doing this themselves, no one from the Conservative party forced him to go on the radio and speak absolutely shite, and no one has forced any of the other Labour MPs to spout the crap they do either- that's on them. Also curious where people have said ah the torys are bloody brilliant definitely voting for them (clue, they haven't). But for many this is understandably a hill to die on.

MarshaBradyo · 30/03/2022 08:16

@spacehardware

"This is an absolute non-issue and mumsnet sadly is getting a reputation for being a haven for hysterical transphobes"

It's a non-issue for women to be told they don't exist? For our protections under the equality act to be eroded?

My vote is mine snd I'm not going to cast it to the order of someone who calls women hysterical or transphobes for thinking female people are real. Fuck off tbh

Pretty much
DrSbaitso · 30/03/2022 08:17

@Baddit, can you tell us what a woman is?

SilverGlitterBaubles · 30/03/2022 08:29

@Mytholmroyd

I am so disappointed by Starmer and Labour on this. However I would also like to see Johnson and other leading Tory MPs and cabinet ministers quizzed on the same issue at every opportunity

Sunak did no better a couple of days ago - pathetic - just kept repeating 'I agree with what the prime minister said' over and over. Looked a complete idiot

Exactly this, while I agree Labour are spineless on the issue I am not convinced that the Tories are any better. This is become such a no go topic for anyone in the public eye with people falling over themselves not to become another JK Rowling. They are actually willing to deny all common sense and reality in order not to to offend particular groups. It's like the emperors new clothes, we are all being told to accept things that are not reality.
spacehardware · 30/03/2022 08:33

"Its like re arranging the deck chairs on the Titantic by people who don't have much else to worry about, like poverty, domestic violence, lack of schooling, childcare, wage inequality, lack of access to healthcare, housing, access to justice for sexual assault etc etc."

I've been a victim of domestic violence thanks, because of that experience I can imagine exactly how terrifying it would be to have a man in a women's shelter. These are not luxury opinions