To be gobsmacked at friend

[searchingforsomethiing]

I am part of a group of friends (there are 6 of us) we are all 40 and have known each other since school.

My closest friend in the group I’ve known since primary school. She’s struggled with money in the past due to various things and I’ve always helped her out. I’m in a reasonably high paid job and I’ve given her money and been explicit that a) I didn’t want it back and b) it was between us and not to say it our friends which she was always in agreement with.

Over the past couple of years I’ve given her probably in the region of £400 and done a lot of shopping for her as well get her kids good birthday and Christmas presents. Again there’s no expectation of this in return and I’m glad to help where I can. She’s on a more even keel these days so I haven’t helped in a little while.

Cut to Saturday night, and we were out for dinner with all the other girls. My friend had a bit to drink and announced to the table loudly and that I’d been giving her money because I thought she was a “charity case” and she knew I’d been telling them all privately what I’d been doing. She was really vitriolic about it. I was absolutely mortified and so were the others.

It was incredibly awkward and I excused myself from the table and when I returned it was exceptionally difficult to keep any conversation going because she was obviously unhappy.

I left the meal not long after. I’d given her a lift to the restaurant and she expected one home but I left without giving her the chance to join.

I don’t even know how I feel tbh. I don’t know what came over her and I feel like the friendship is over.

£400 over several years isn't really that much but you're acting as though she should be eternally in your service.

Yet, said friend not thought to pay it back. Perhaps if she had, she wouldn’t have felt like a charity case and wouldn’t have humiliated OP because of her own insecurities over it.

@oliviastwisted

Fucking autocorrect fried steak is friend

I'd rather have a fried steak than a friend like the OP!

My friend messaged me last year and asked me to lend him a grand. I didn't. I couldn't really afford it. I didn't want to get into that situation either. So I refused.

I found out now that his marriage has broken up mainly to do with him mismanaging money. He persuaded another friend to lend him the money which he did. My friend and his wife were out with the money lender and his wife. My friend's wife found out about borrowing whilst they were out. Then a scene kicked off. She was unaware of all his borrowing. They are now divorcing.

I am glad I didn't lend him any money.

This post will make me very unpopular but wahetever...

1. OP's scorched earther policy is totally out of keeping with a long friendship. There is stuff here which we are NOT being told.
2. A drunken outburst like that means OP's friend is hurting. Would it not be better to look for the root causes of that? I suspect OP knows full well what the root cause is and it might not just be the £400.
3. From what OP tells us about her financial situ, £400 is not a lot for her. To demand it back and also to clearly carry a tally round in her head of birthday and xmas presents, is pretty disgusting and effed up, imo.
4. No friendship goes from bliss to scorched earth like this over a durnken outburst. OP seems like a pretty rigid person, it's her rules or the highway. Again i repeat, there is stuff we are not being told.
5. If OP's friend was upset because she thought OP might have told the other friends about the money, imagine how she's gonna feel when she sees the whole thing being aired over Mumsnet.

@Inchail

You don't really sound very nice. £400 over several years isn't really that much but you're acting as though she should be eternally in your service.

If anyone messaged me about how much I'd "embarrassed myself" they wouldn't be getting an answer.

Totally missing the point.

@searchingforsomethiing

God it sounds harsh in the cold light of day

I don't think so. It sets out the facts exactly and clarifies how unjust she's been and how hurt you must be. 🌹

@potniatheron

This post will make me very unpopular but wahetever...

1. OP's scorched earther policy is totally out of keeping with a long friendship. There is stuff here which we are NOT being told.
2. A drunken outburst like that means OP's friend is hurting. Would it not be better to look for the root causes of that? I suspect OP knows full well what the root cause is and it might not just be the £400.
3. From what OP tells us about her financial situ, £400 is not a lot for her. To demand it back and also to clearly carry a tally round in her head of birthday and xmas presents, is pretty disgusting and effed up, imo.
4. No friendship goes from bliss to scorched earth like this over a durnken outburst. OP seems like a pretty rigid person, it's her rules or the highway. Again i repeat, there is stuff we are not being told.
5. If OP's friend was upset because she thought OP might have told the other friends about the money, imagine how she's gonna feel when she sees the whole thing being aired over Mumsnet.

This.

Also I'm genuinely surprised at how many on MN will dump a 30 year friendship because of a drunken inappropriate outburst. What happened to being the bigger person and trying to sort things with kindness and understanding? Fighting fire with fire never solved anything..... and trying to make yourself 'right' on Mumsnet?

Oy vey 🤣

100% on your side here, including your wording of both messages. She’s been ungrateful, rude and rather vindictive and hasn’t apologised. Her behaviour is not okay, her reaction to being corrected on her accusation is not okay and consequently you owe her nothing. Still baffled about why she’d take money from you and then throw it back in your face like some sort of accusation, without a shred of evidence that you’ve done anything but be kind.

It’s interesting that some posters confuse the moral high ground with staying ‘silent’ - no-one has ever said OP should be silent; and that some posters can see no middle ground between being ‘kind’ and being an arsehole.

@potniatheron

This post will make me very unpopular but wahetever...

1. OP's scorched earther policy is totally out of keeping with a long friendship. There is stuff here which we are NOT being told.
2. A drunken outburst like that means OP's friend is hurting. Would it not be better to look for the root causes of that? I suspect OP knows full well what the root cause is and it might not just be the £400.
3. From what OP tells us about her financial situ, £400 is not a lot for her. To demand it back and also to clearly carry a tally round in her head of birthday and xmas presents, is pretty disgusting and effed up, imo.
4. No friendship goes from bliss to scorched earth like this over a durnken outburst. OP seems like a pretty rigid person, it's her rules or the highway. Again i repeat, there is stuff we are not being told.
5. If OP's friend was upset because she thought OP might have told the other friends about the money, imagine how she's gonna feel when she sees the whole thing being aired over Mumsnet.

@potniatheron - I tend to agree with you here. Not that OP will let us know!

It looks like OP will still be friends with her friend after all this.

@searchingforsomethiing

I’ve looked at the all the responses and I’ve gone back to her to say

Your excuse doesn’t make any sense. Despite no physical contact, we have had numerous whatsapp chats where you were aware of my MIL, my job and DD’s broken arm and the few other things that cropped up unexpectedly causing stress and exhaustion. I am so sad and deeply disappointed that you thought so little of me to berate me in front of our friends for something that never happened. You had a bee in your bonnet because you were drunk and you embarrassed me and utterly humiliated yourself. An apology should have been the first thing you sent me when you sobered up and realised what a dick you’d been. I don’t want any money back from you but I won’t be parting with anymore now that I know exactly how low your opinion is of me. Going forward, if you find yourself in a tight spot please don’t ask me for financial assistance.

God it sounds harsh in the cold light of day

Excellent response :)

Nice to see such behaviour get its rewards. She took advantage of your good nature but then needed to play victim for her mates. It's scummy how quickly some people will throw someone else under the bus to have their own moment of woe-is-me, and then accuse them of being 'sensitive' afterwards.

Well done for standing up for yourself!

I agree with @potniatheron re OP's friend. If OP's friend knew (I'm sure she must know now, as their mutual friends must know) that her business has been posted on FB, surely she'd be even more mortified and upset.

I do think that as someone else said, this could have quite easily been something which OP could've spoken to her friend about quietly, maybe when her friend was sober, so the next day.

It does also smack somewhat (having read of all OP's updates) that OP seems to have the higher moral ground over her friend - maybe her friend did get some sense of smugness that OP had helped her out and resentment had built up over time.

Well, an apology from the drunken, accusing friend wouldn't go astray.

@potniatheron I agree. There's more to this than we are being told. Obviously the drunken outburst was unfortunate but I don't think the OP has covered herself in glory here either tbh. The two messages were both horrible. The leaving on the evening, also, not great.

Like you say, it's all very dramatic after 30 years' of friendship.

@TatianaBis

It’s interesting that some posters confuse the moral high ground with staying ‘silent’ - no-one has ever said OP should be silent; and that some posters can see no middle ground between being ‘kind’ and being an arsehole.

This. I've noticed it a lot on here. People seem to constantly conflate the (perfectly correct) idea that women don't have to be passive people pleasers, with the idea that being aggressive, intolerant and treating people as disposable is OK. Either the nuance of the middle ground is lost on them, or its a handy excuse to be a nasty piece of work.

@5128gap

I don’t think I’ve been aggressive. I think what I have been is assertive and there’s world of difference

Well, an apology from the drunken, accusing friend wouldn't go astray.

Exactly. Still no apology but excuses on why she did it because being drunk and insecure about your finances is a great reason to humiliate the very person who helped you out and who you also agreed with to keep it a secret. As a friend, she failed OP on several counts yet still no apology. It’s easy to say to forgive this friend but if this friend can’t even bother to apologise, why should OP continue to be her friend? 30 year friendship and this friend can’t even apologise, she doesn’t sound like she wants to save the friendship if she can’t even do that.

OP's scorched earther policy is totally out of keeping with a long friendship. There is stuff here which we are NOT being told

I agree totally, this is not the behaviour of two adult best friends who have been best friends since childhood. This is two women who are brimming over with resentment and were looking for a reason to go at each other hard. It is indeed a scorched earth policy. The op speaks of this woman like she hates her. It is pure venom.There is no love lost here.

There is clearly much more going on than is being said and I strongly suspect the other woman’s version would be very different as would the friends witnessing this play out versions.

Iv only read all your comments no one else's. I don't think anything you have said or done is wrong at all and I think she's completely out of order for the way she acted, for not messaging an apology the next day straight away or today when she replied. She was a dick and even more so now she's not replied. She doesn't really deserve you as a friend.

I still think something triggered this - and yes that some detail is missing somewhere.

[quote searchingforsomethiing]@5128gap

I don’t think I’ve been aggressive. I think what I have been is assertive and there’s world of difference[/quote]
Your original reckoning of your own message as “harsh” - (ie: ‘rough’, ‘jarring’, ‘cruel’) was correct.

If you’re comfortable with that that’s up to you, but you may find a backlash among your friends for being unpleasant when you had been in the right. They may infer there was something behind your friend’s outburst and it may render them more sympathetic to her than they would had been.

[quote searchingforsomethiing]@5128gap

I don’t think I’ve been aggressive. I think what I have been is assertive and there’s world of difference[/quote]
I disagree. Alhough to be pedantic, your comment that 'the best way to resolve this' was for her to repay you, was actually passive aggressive. It wasn't in any way a suggestion to resolve it, it was a reminder that just as you gave, you can take away if sufficiently displeased. Pure muscle flexing. Don't get me wrong, I get you were annoyed and lashing out. We all do it. But its disingenuous to frame it as assertiveness. Assertiveness would simply be telling her that her behaviour had angered and hurt you, and being clear what was expected in future. Or that there would be no future, depending on how strongly you felt.

@Anniefrenchfry

OP's scorched earther policy is totally out of keeping with a long friendship. There is stuff here which we are NOT being told

I agree totally, this is not the behaviour of two adult best friends who have been best friends since childhood. This is two women who are brimming over with resentment and were looking for a reason to go at each other hard. It is indeed a scorched earth policy. The op speaks of this woman like she hates her. It is pure venom.There is no love lost here.

There is clearly much more going on than is being said and I strongly suspect the other woman’s version would be very different as would the friends witnessing this play out versions.

Totally agree

But won’t go down well…

@TatianaBis

That may be the case but it would mean my friend telling them that I said I wouldn’t be giving her anymore money based on how she’s behaved.

Knowing my friends as I do, I don’t think they’d disagree with that sentiment.

I’m not an aggressive person but I am assertive when I feel I need to be and in this situation given the amount of money given to her in cash and (probably more) spent on grocery shopping to make sure she had everything she needed I feel like I’ve been taken for a mug.

30 years of friendship or not, if you make loud unsubstantiated and frankly slanderous claims that I’m a gossip and a liar in public then refuse to apologise what am I to do?

My eyes have been opened and any decent person would have apologised and done so profusely. I know I would have if I’d been a total bitch.

@Anniefrenchfry

You may think that but I did what I could to help her and it was never mentioned outwith the times the money was given. No mentions of it outside shopping being handed in.

She probably does have a lot going on but then don’t we all and we somehow manage without besmirching someone’s character when they’ve done you a favour.

Like I said in a previous post, my DH and I were skint when we had our first child when I was 23 and we were given help. Never once did I throw it back at them

[quote searchingforsomethiing]@5128gap

I don’t think I’ve been aggressive. I think what I have been is assertive and there’s world of difference[/quote]
Assertive, yes, and it is entirely up to you anyway. We don't know you or your friend and were not there when the awful incident occurred.

I don't believe you should have asked for the money back; you gave it to her, it seems wrong to change the terms and conditions so late in the day and you're unlikely to get it back so what was the point? I think expressing your displeasure at her behaviour was enough.

I wonder if you are feeling better now. Whatever, you must move on, older and wiser.