Neighbour from downstairs doesn't stop complaining about my 2 year old.

[HipsterMum]

We are a family of academics with 2 boys who are 5 and 2 years old. We are currently renting a lovely flat in a large block of flats where the walls are quite thin. We can hear a lot happening in other flats and unfortunately, our neighbours from downstairs can hear us too. We are not particularly noisy, my husband is at work full time, my eldest child is at school and after school he is usually quietly playing with his toys. My youngest is still waiting for his place in the nursery and as I am currently working from home, I look after him in the house. He is not particularly noisy, we don't allow scooters, big cars around the house but he did just discover running so he does sometimes run from one room to another although we continuously tell him to walk gently. Yet he is still a child.

For 2 years we had no problem with any neighbours. The couples living next to us are lovely so is the elderly gentlemen who is completely understanding of some extra noise especially during school holidays and weekends. My kids are always in their bed at about 6.30 reading and then straight to sleep. They wake up normally at 7.30 am and we encourage them to do quite activities like drawing in the mornings. If they get too loud or start jumping off somewhere in the mornings for example on Sundays, we stop this straight away. They also wear soft slippers at all times.

A few months back an owner of the flat below ours decided to move back in (it was rented out before therefore we had no problems with previous people). He hasn't stopped coming up to us and knocking on our doors since. The first time he did it, we were all sick with covid for 10 days. He came on day 2 of isolation and asked us to take the kids out to the park as he couldnt listen to their little feet. When I hoover the floors at 3 pm , he starts banging. When my youngest runs to the loo he bangs. We had relatives over who we not seen for 4 years because of the lockdown and the kids were meeting them for the first time and were opening presents and being excited he was at our door at 2 pm on Sunday saying we have to tell our kids to simply stop walking because he cannot stand it.

We talked with our landlord about the carpets (we have some mats around but thats not enough) but he wouldn't pay for them and he doesn't want carpets permanently placed in this flat anyway. Furthermore, our eldest has got a bad dust allergy so carpets are really difficult, that's why I hoover quite a lot. We invested in a couple of more rugs but I don't think it will make much of a difference. He threatens us that he will continue to come and bang on our front door because he cannot enjoy his life because of our 2 year old. He says we are not being considerate of others and we should be able to tell our kids to stop because he can hear their steps from 9 am till 6 pm. But I cannot tie them up to their chairs or threaten to punish them each time they walk in the own flat. I am at my end with this man. This man suggests I tire them in the park because that's what real parents do (I doubt he ever had kids) but I cannot be with them in the park every weekend from 9 am till 6, can I? We are out most of the days and i do tire my youngest out with the scooter but kids still walk after the park.

What I am asking of all of you is what else can this neighbour actually legally do? What else can I do? My husband says I should not open the door when I am in the flat alone with the little one and tell the guy to stop this harassment. We don't mind moving somewhere else, possibly on the ground floor in the future but we enjoy this flat at the moment as it is right next to my sons school and we live a happy life here.

I understand many people don't enjoy children with their annoying little feet but bloody hell they are humans and not robots.

What's academics got to do with any of this?

You say wfh

YANBU because you're doing nothing wrong. But you'll probably have to accept that you are being disruptive to your neighbour inadvertantly.

What is your DC doing whilst you're WFH?

I'd maybe mention it to your landlord in writing send a copy to your neighbour with a letter that explains your position and you've done all you can. Ask that the neighbour refrain from contacting you about noise during 7 and 11pm and to leave you in peace.

He sounds unreasonable in his expectations. However I do think it's really essential to have carpeted floors with decent underlay in flats like this. When I was in flats I never lived in one that didnt require carpets in all rooms except kitchen/bathrooms. The flat we owned specified this in the leasehold agreement which isnt unusual. Carpets do muffle a lot.

YANBU.

But PP are right - do not address this via your landlord unless the landlord raises it with you.

I disagree with others saying you should tell him you will be considerate - that implies you’re not already being considerate but you are. What you describe is perfectly reasonable enjoyment of your home.

I would write him a letter. Post it by registered post and keep a copy.

Your letter should say:

(a) his complaints to you are unfounded, your usage of the home is entirely appropriate and reasonable. You can set out the various steps you are taking to avoid disturbance and the fact that your kids are not even up between 6.30pm and 7.30am, no hoovering at unsociable hours, no shoes indoors etc.

(b) you understand his complaint and there is no value in discussing it further. If he continues to consider that you are causing a nuisance then he should address his complaint to your local authority*.

(c) You consider his repeated calling to be intimidatory and threatening and he should desist immediately.

(d) Further calling or knocking will be met with a complaint to police for harassment.

Leave it at that. Don’t engage with him further. If he complains to you again, refer back to the letter and say you have nothing further to add.

*Your local authority will not do anything here. If he honestly describes what is happening they will tell him to sod off. If he describes it dishonestly, all that will happen is the council will come out to measure noise levels - and nothing you describe would come close to meeting the threshold for them taking action. So by batting him off and telling him to take it up with the council, you’re pretty guaranteed that he will get no where.

Also, agree with PP keep a log if he keeps knocking. If he continues to do it after you send the letter you should inform police as it is genuinely a case of harassment.

Of course you could move but even if you want to do that eventually, I would face him down for now. He sounds like a bully.

Are you in Edinburgh by any chance. I think we lived above the same neighbour.

@TabithaTittlemouse

I don’t understand why you included that you are a ‘family of academics’ in your post?

Was going to say the same thing... Its as if OP is saying "we're well educated, professional people so obviously we aren't doing anything wrong like some awful chav would"

Yes people can work from home and still manage to be caring parents who do things with their child.

I think most people, including employers and the kids themselves, would disagree with this. Unless you do less than four hours of work a day. In which case yes you can head out to the park much more.

And no of course you don't need to be in a park 7.30-6. Just an hour or two mornibg and afternoon will tire DS out so he does quiet play at home. A nursery does as much outdoor play as that

If the problem has only occurred since the new neighbour moved in, I'd suggest the new neighbour is a problem (unless the previous neighbour moved out because of you?). Seems you've done all you can to restrict noise.

Does the neighbour never go out - sounds like they are going to be a serious PITA.

Tell them you will be reporting them for harassment - put the boot on the other foot.

I think your landlord should carpet the flat. But you can't stop normal noise so yanbu.

Most flats are leasehold and some have it in there about no hard floors.

with hard floor he will sound more noisy to him than to you in your flat.

Noise is noise and just because a child makes it isn't a get out of jail card to be inconsiderate .

What does your 2 year old do while you are being all academic?

Extraordinary that you're a family of academics given the ages of the DC

How do you work from home with a 2 year old? If you're working how do you keep him busy/entertained, and check that he isn't running about? You need childcare to work from home....maybe that's the issue?

@Toottooot

So you think you’re better than other people because you are academics?

For fuck sake, stop attacking the OP.

@Fretfulagain

Speaking as someone who has to live beneath small children (who are lovely) in an upstairs flat with wooden floors and no carpet, who have very nice and considerate parents who we got on well with - the sound is torture. It’s just awful. I know they are children and of course they run and jump and get excited but gosh it’s horrible living below them. I suggest you go down there and see how it sounds, I think you’d be surprised even with slippers/no shoes. It should be illegal to not have soundproofing - without that your neighbour’s quality of life will be negatively impacted despite your best efforts. In fact is isn’t legal to build flats or even convert them without some soundproofing now but sadly no retrospective legislation. Your neighbour may or may not be an arsehole but trust me the noise on wooden floors with no soundproofing will be awful for him and he may not be aware of how much you are trying to keep it down.

All of this. Living below a flat with wooden floors is hell. You hear every single noise, and once you hear it you can't unhear it.It gets into your brain and you feel stressed when there isn't any noise ,because any minute now it will start again.I know it is difficult with small children and a rented flat, but I have a great deal of sympathy for your neighbour

@jamandmarmaladeoncrumpets

Your academic background is irrelevant to the noise you are permitting your children to make. Try teaching your children that they since they live in a flat and not in a detached house that they are to remember that they have neighbours directly below and it is not fair.

I wish someone would teach that to the teens in the flat downstairs. Apparently screaming is OK because "they're children".

I'd move out, this isn't a good fit all around. I cannot believe your landlord won't install carpets, that would significantly reduce the sound your neighbour is experiencing.

I also think soundproofing should be legally enforceable, living in flats can be torturous at times.

@theotherfossilsister

Are you in Edinburgh by any chance. I think we lived above the same neighbour.

No, thats just Edinburgh in general.

When I lived there, I had a neighbour who complained about everything. She complained that I got the wiring in my house renewed, she complained that I hoovered after 7pm at night, she complained that I once went out to my garden shed after 9pm, she complained about the noise of my shoes on the stairs, clearly in her mind a single female professional just wasn't good enough for her.

She didn't even live there. She ran an AirBnB, the bathroom of which flooded and destroyed my new wiring, and the neighbour's new kitchen. The man who had informed her of my temerity in going to my shed after 9pm was an AirBnB guest. It was beyond creepy.

And the OP's neighbour, by constantly harassing a mother alone with her child in her own property, well we all know how that looks.

Next time he comes to complain tell him you are just as sick of the sound of his voice. Tell him you do your upmost to make as little noise as possible, but he has to realise that he’s living in a flat. Point out that no other neighbours have ever complained. Tell him to stop hassling you.

I took the academics comment to mean "we don't have noisy professions" such as musicians aka WFH isn't the issue. I know that OP has clarified that wasn't her meaning though!

family of academics

Could the mortarboards perhaps be affecting your own sound perception?

@Honeyroar

Next time he comes to complain tell him you are just as sick of the sound of his voice. Tell him you do your upmost to make as little noise as possible, but he has to realise that he’s living in a flat. Point out that no other neighbours have ever complained. Tell him to stop hassling you.

They moved out of the flat. That could be for a multitude of reasons, one of which was the sound of Ops family upstairs.

I would try to look at the flat's lease agreement and write to the management agent, that the owner of that flat is in breach of the terms of his lease by causing a nuisance with his continued harassment.

He is a bully. No matter how much you try to ignore it though, the problem is always at the back of your mind. I would look for a new place to live where your children can flourish.

Jesus. Leave the OP alone about her academics comment.

If she mentioned it afterwards to show she doesn't have noisy job some people would accuse her of drip feeding.