AIBU - to think this is vulgar as anything?

[ValerieCupcake]

It is not racist. But it is selfish.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10651179/Big-Willy-Collins-widow-accuses-council-RACISM-22-ft-high-200-000-headstone.html#newcomment

Well, it's awful, but it's not the worst I've ever seen. There's a truly bizarre one in Wolvercote cemetery in Oxford. There's one in Banbury which really makes me flinch when I pass it, because not only is it huge and ostentatious, but the traveller's first name was the N-word. So it's just there, emblazoned huge on the grave, but I mean...it was his name so what can you do?

I am curious about the area it covers. It looks as though it covers about 8 plots in size.

Did the family buy a block of eight plots for one burial? Is the idea that there will be more family members buried there when their times come?

It's only "cultural" in that Europe has a long-standing culture of wealthy people building huge memorials to their dead, and yesssss the "nouveau riche" (i.e. people that other rich people don't quite approve of having as much money as them) are probably a little more guilty of this than others.

It's not "cultural" for travellers specifically, or for Irish people. Everyone does it - has always done it.

Even in ancient Rome we know of people from non-culturally-mainstream backgrounds building slightly eye-popping grave memorials to themselves before they'd even died, just to be sure they were fabulous enough, and many of the super OTT memorials we get all sentimental about at Père Lachaise Cemetery, or Highbury, or Laeken in Brussels probably raised some eyebrows when they went up first.

The music and the lights are probably a step too far, but I don't see any problem with the general excess. It's their family plot, and they have built a large grave on it in a very recognisably European Christian style.

@Thoosa

Is this about the traveller grave planning row?

Tricky. On one hand it’s cultural, OTOH it is overwhelming the surrounding graves.

Usually, cemeteries are divided up by religion, so like is with like, but I suppose that doesn’t apply here because it’s a cultural, not a religious difference.

How's a jukebox cultural in the sense of Traveller history?

Although I'm a bit at him being King of the Travellers? Did any of the other Travellers in England know about this?

I'd be more interested in knowing where the money came from, if there was that much kicking around at the age of 49 that they had 200k to drop on this.

It's not racist its the me me me attitude of some people. Have they given any thought to other people who wish to quietly remember loved ones without a juke box and flashing lights intruding on them?
No of course they haven't. They don't care

^This

@RoastedFerret

To be fair the cemetery should have rules in place if they don't want ginormous memorials. I'm not in the UK but here we have height restrictions and all tombstones are subject to approval before they are erected, you have to show drawings or photos before hand. If they didn't want something like this to happen then they should have prevented it, it's a bit late to start moaning about it after it is erected.

Planning rules apply. This family chose not to go through planning. There is no way they would have been granted permission as it is completely out of keeping and inappropriate. And yes, in horrendous taste.

"The headstone is lit up in LED lights that change colour and is under 24-hour CCTV monitoring, which his family can also access on their phones and use to ‘speak’ to him."

No words.

In a world where some bereaved parents are told not to leave teddies or little windmills on the graves of their children I can't believe that the council will allow this to remain.

It would be far better to have it as a tribute or shrine to him on their own land.

I'm not going to judge anyone's taste, or culture, we are all different. We should all be respectful of other grieving people though, and, unfortunately, this isn't very respectful to those who have family in the graveyard.

I would also be very uncomfortable knowing that anyone has cctv at the graveyard too.

I saw a tiktok that one of his children posted. The music is loud, and on repeat. The sound system in built in, and can only be worked by the family. The video I saw was the memorial unveiling.

There was a huge truck with a video screen on the side, showing a slide show of pictures as well as amplifying the music. There was shouting, whooping and alcohol drinking, as well as vehicles revving engines. It was like a day time disco, except in a cemetery.

I felt really sorry for any other funerals going on at the same time.

@FourLittleStars

I saw a tiktok that one of his children posted. The music is loud, and on repeat. The sound system in built in, and can only be worked by the family. The video I saw was the memorial unveiling.

There was a huge truck with a video screen on the side, showing a slide show of pictures as well as amplifying the music. There was shouting, whooping and alcohol drinking, as well as vehicles revving engines. It was like a day time disco, except in a cemetery.

I felt really sorry for any other funerals going on at the same time.

That sounds awful. I can't get fussed about the marble parts of the memorial, but that sounds dreadful.

It's not "cultural" by any stretch of the imagination!

I think it's absolutely hideous, but that's just my personal taste and the fact that people think it's tacky isn't the problem. As I understand it, the problem is that it breaks most of the cemetery's rules over size, noise, lighting etc. The fact that it's 'vulgar' is nobody else's business, but the fact that it's the size of a small bungalow, plays music and has coloured flashing lights and CCTV, all of which aren't allowed, obviously does have an impact on others and isn't fair on other mourners.

So while the fact that people think it's ugly is neither here nor there, it's really just that it's not fair if one family break every rule in the book and dominate the resting places of every other family's loved ones.

@Sciurus83

Haha wow! I mean, it's pretty ostentatious but it's not harming anyone now is it

The people who want to quietly and respectfully visit the graves nearby may disagree with you The point for me is does it breech planning or whatever process governs graves and memorials - if so then in needs to go, no matter what the deceased culture or race. I remember seeing an article about it and thought “how the fuck were they allowed to do that?” It seems they weren’t

The whole thing is disrespectful to other people buried there. The cemetery is not their own private land to do as they please with.

They might think the jukebox and flashing LED lights are super but most people will not, and it's so unfair for this crowd of people to inflict their choices on everyone else. That's why there's rules. If you want the huge memorial, then you buy a plot of land and built it there, subject to planning consent of course.

This is not racist.

I quite like it, I’ll get my coat. I think it should be on private ground however and not in a council cemetery. Then they could play music all day long.

This bloody thing.

I live in the city where this has happened. All the press have referred to the guy who died as ‘The King Of Sheffield’

No one’s even heard of him. Not one person l know in this city knew who he was until this hit the press.

And it’s still in the press. And no one in Sheffield is interested in it.

Who even was he?

"We'll do what the hell we want, when we want, how we want because nobody else matters but us and if you apply the rules equally to us you're racist and we will organise a violent mob".
Yep this about sums it up. They give not a fuck.

Love the way when I clicked on the link it took me straight to the end of the article to the Comments box. Presumably so the racist and hard of thinking don’t have to waste time reading it, they can just type insults aimed at the Traveller community right away

I wonder how many people complaining ever actually visit their local graveyards. There are many with much bigger monuments.

Our local cemetery is usually full of people walking their dogs and letting them do the toilet all over people's graves. I'd much rather listen to some music whilst visiting my parents' grave than have to try to avoid all the bloody dogs.

@SnowdropViolet

I am curious about the area it covers. It looks as though it covers about 8 plots in size.

Did the family buy a block of eight plots for one burial? Is the idea that there will be more family members buried there when their times come?

I’ve seen them say they own the plots taken up by the memorial and behind it I think

Pretty ostentatious . Hmm now there's an understatement. How many grave spaces does it take up ?.Where my Granny is buried we can only stand at the foot of the grave. We can't stand beside it because we would be standing on the next grave. When her daughters ashes were being buried with her, the wall of the grave was so thin you could see the coffin next door. Never in my life have I seen council workers move so fast and we were ushered out of the way until a green tarp was carefully draped. That monstrosity didn't appear overnight so why didn't someone in authority do something about it before it was completed ?

Council officials in the city have protested that the flamboyant memorial broke planning laws because it did not match the original plans......The council's rules state that memorials must be under 3 inches thick and under 4 feet 4 inches tall. Big Willy's memorial stands at 10 feet high.

So selfish and disrespectful to foist this onto everyone else who visits the cemetery, and then calling it racist and saying there will be war if they're made to follow the same rules that everyone else has to. The sooner the council take it down the better for everyone else who wants to visit their relatives in peace. Some people are so entitled it just beggars belief.

a jukebox ffs people dont want to hear that

Massively flouting the rules then claiming racism when pulled up on it is one of the biggest reasons why people find issue with the travelling community.