AIBU- Can't afford to work

[MissRja]

Just trying to work out a return to work after having a baby In December ( also have a 4 year old in full time school ) unfortunately, my original plans for childcare have fell through, which now means we are looking at paid childcare. My current job have declined My flexible working request , which means I am looking for another job. Due to school pick up/ drops offs I am looking returning on reduced hours over 5 days or term time only. Have worked our I will be bringing home roughly £1200 after tax per month. Nursery fees will be £1100 for a four week month, or £1375 for a 5 week month. This does not include before / after school club fees. If I was to use my wages alone to pay childcare fees I would actually be losing money to work , especially when factoring in petrol , work clothes etc. Surely this can't be right. How in this day and age can I not afford to go to work !! Its ridiculous. The whole reason I am going back is because we can't afford to live off DP wages alone , but it doesn't seem like it will make a difference if i do go back to work. Am i missing something here ? What does everyone else do to work around this ? Would love to hear your experiences / advice !!

Childcare costs are a household expense, not your personal expense. It's in with mortgage and bills, so split between you and your partner, so you are only liable for part of it. There are other major advantages to working, such as building up your pension and maintaining your position in the work force. Nursery bills are only there for a couple of years - then you are eligible for some free hours, and then the child is in school, so this is only a temporary situation. Do not give up work!

Childcare is expensive, probably the biggest outgoing for many families with small children. It’s more than our mortgage for us.

However, we both want to work so we do the best we can. I’m about to return to work after DC2. Mine are almost 4 and 1. One at school, one due to start nursery.
Originally my work wanted me to do 5 shorter days however I have managed to negotiate 4 full days instead. Shorter days made no sense as with travel time, we would still need to pay for full nursery days and before & after school clubs for eldest (plus extra cost of petrol). With a 4 day week, I am able to provide all childcare for one day, cutting the bill. I start work early so DH does drop offs and I do pick ups. We still need before and after school clubs to cover our hours but at least we can work full days to maximise pay and the burden isn’t completely on one of us.

DH has negotiated to work a 4 day week during school holidays so that we only need to find childcare for 3 days a week during these periods. Youngest will stay in nursery and we are lucky that parents have offered to help with the eldest as much as possible. Obviously we will also need to use annual leave and holiday clubs as a last resort as they can be expensive but we put money aside for these each month.

As others have mentioned, obviously take advantage of the tax free childcare scheme. This helps us a lot.

We worked out a budget combining both incomes and then working out all expenditure including childcare fees to see what (if anything) was left. Most months it is very little and with the rising cost of living, it’s worrying. But we’re definitely better off financially and mentally with us both being at work. I would also be anxious about stepping out of the workplace and trying to find a new role in a few years time as the future is quite uncertain at the minute. We have cut out anything not essential and stick to a strict budget for food shopping/ only but new clothes when truly needed, etc. It should get easier when youngest turns 3 and gets some funded hours at nursery.

The household pot stays the same though. Wether one salary goes on or 50/50 the house is still worse off. I hear you OP, I'm not at work for the same reason

I went back to full time work after 6 months with both children. I now have a comfortable pension, good skills and I am now working part time

For my own health and well being I never wanted some 'part time' low paid role. I have a friend who used to live around the corner. She used to make little barbs regarding my full time role and would often call me at 1630 on a Friday and try and tempt me to come for a few drinks - everyone was there, why wasnt I? She also stated many times in front of people she wouldnt do a role like mine (and quite honestly was in no way qualified to do it).

She is now early 60's and is desperately worried about her lack of a real pension, used to do shifts as a school dinner lady but didnt want anything that meant she couldnt be home for the kids (or go to the pub!). She spent everything she earned which wasnt a lot on enjoying life.

She is now saying I have been lucky, full state pension coming, private pension, kids have been privately educated.

She really doesnt get that we all make choices, some are poor choices, some are short term decisions and some are just plan daft.

In no way was I lucky....

@WombatChocolate

IT isn't worth working for everyone.

As others point out, if you have a basic job with few benefits and no real career progression, the gains of remaining in work can be few.

Lots of people have jobs not careers. Their pension contribution from the employer is the minimum and they can't afford to make their own contribution (especially with childcare costs). Lots of jobs give basically zero sick pay for early sickness. Lots of people will be earning the same in 10 years and won't see any career progression and being in the job longer won't confer any benefits in terms of pay. Lots are on zero hours contracts so actually their work is irregular and they can be paying for childcare without even knowing how many hours they will be earning for.

People forget that large proportions of the population don't have a career. They aren't on a trajectory to promotion and personal fulfilment in the workplace. They do jobs they hate and which treat them poorly and give them limited security.

Yes, for those with career prospects it can be worth taking the hit and even being worse off by working for a short time. But that isn't the same as people in essentially dead-end jobs.

Thanks for pointing all that out better than I ever could.

I always feel like shit for not planning my life better or not having the opportunity in life to do anything better than minimum wage, zero prospect work (I know we all have choices, but some of us are dealt some pretty horrible life circumstances from early on and aren’t able to overcome them for a whole host of reasons. I actually went to one of. the best schools in the country and my peers are all doing amazing things, but no school can make up for a poor family situation in some circumstances).

I don’t have financial security of my own, and yeah, if dh left me I’d be screwed but hey, I can always walk back into a care job. But I am doing my best as a SAHP to support and encourage my children so they don’t have the shit life I did and hopefully, won’t end up working low paying jobs they hate.

@WaterBottle123

You can't afford not to work, never be financially dependent on a man.

Claim the childcare help and make sure your husband pays half the fees and does half the pick ups

Yes, this is a narrative that a lot of women fall into without considering properly.

We had the same situation (200 left of my salary after childcare costs) but I wanted to make sure I could get a better paid position, which was more likely if I stayed in employment. So we scrambled around on little cash for 3.5 years. Things improved once I got a promotion. Are you likely to get one if you stay in your position?

The other option is to look for a position where you can work from home with some in-home help for a few hours a day. It could work our cheaper. I am able to do my work at night after everyone has gone to bed, which is how I manage.

It doesn't really matter whose salary it comes out if though does it?

The bottom line is that the maximum amount brought in by OP working is 1200 and the childcare to allow her to work is more like 1300. Whatever way you look at it, the household is down by approx 100. If they are already struggling on the husbands salary then they can't afford to be down another 100 for the sake of pension contributions and the like.

I see the usual idiots who can’t do basic maths are making the usual stupid comments that childcare is a shared expense. IT DOESN’T MATTER WHO PAYS IT, THE TOTAL COST IS THE SAME. Childcare costs £1100 regardless. If one person only earns £900 for example, the family is £200 out of pocket. It’s irrelevant whether you think of it as one person paying £1100 or two people paying £550 each, the maths works out the same.

OP, yes it’s very common for childcare to exceed the salary of a low earner. It’s very common for one parent to be forced to stay at home until free childcare kicks in. I was in the same situation and I couldn’t work for years because we as a family would have been worse off financially if I did.

If you're just going to be working school hours so you can do drop off / pick up then I would use a childminder instead of nursery. I found childminders much cheaper and was able to just use the childminder for the school day ir hours required. Nursery was either full day or AM/PM so wouldn't suit for school hours. Once your child is 2 they should be able to attend pre-school which you'll have to pay for but will be much cheaper than nursery.
Also you can claim childcare allowance.

Donra - never be reliant on a partner for your life. If your partner left you would you then fall back on benefits? You wouldnt have a career as such or even much in the way of skills having been out of the workplace for xxx years.

I didnt go to university, was brought up in a single parent household. I knew that once I got a reasonable role I would need to stick with it to get what I wanted from life. Some dont see it like this. They want an easier life so they choose not to work to get it. Their skills get stale or irrelevant.

Then something happens to them, partner decides that he wants someone who really understands what their job role is, someone who flatters them and those people are often work colleagues. I saw it time and time again whilst working.

Dont get me started on people who have a child without being married, then something goes wrong and they suddenly realise that they dont have the rights they thought. They are not next of kin. My Dsis keeps talking about her long term partner as her common law husband. She has been told by better people than me that there is no such thing (a solicitor!) yet she still keeps repeating it.

Lots of parents end up with one wage being completely absorbed by childcare fees and associated costs. That's the cost of having children.

to be honest, it has been like this for many years now, was this not something you were aware of when you planned to start a family?

As far as hours go, my partner changed to a much more flexible role so school runs could be accommodated for . They have to work Saturdays, but you do what you have to do.

Wfh / hybrid working has been a godsend for a lot of people with childcare issues. Most working places insist that hybrid working is NOT to used to for childcare , but the reality is a significant number of people wfh so they can look after kids /dogs as well as work.

It may be a short term struggle but for a long term gain.

Also if you pay for child care you can normally claim the tax back through the gov website which helps.

They will soon get the free child care when they are 3 which really helps but at least you don't lose your career, pension etc

Having kids is expensive. It won't be long until you're entitled to some free hours so I'd just take the hit to stay in employment tbh. And did they rule out any flexible working for your role or would they accept you and DH splitting the pick up and drop offs?

YANBU Article in Guardian today:

www.theguardian.com/money/2022/mar/25/childcare-costs-spiralled-uk-families-survey

What hours do you get on that nursery fee?

Usually they are something like 9-5 as standard.

You may find it cheaper to work eg 3 long days and put your older child in after school club.

Can your partner compress their hours so work 4 days a week? Or can they do drop offs so you can start work earlier and so do more hours?

Can your DH put in a flex working request to cut out the childcare costs for the eldest?

Donra - never be reliant on a partner for your life. If your partner left you would you then fall back on benefits? You wouldnt have a career as such or even much in the way of skills having been out of the workplace for xxx years.

I didn’t have a career before I had kids. Working or not working right now makes no difference. I’m returning to work shortly and I still won’t have a career. I’ll never have a career. I’ll never have a pension either, I’ve never earned enough to pay into one and I never will. Yes if my partner left I’d fall back on benefits, which is where I was when he met me, and where I’d have been all along if we’d never met. What you need to understand is that looking after kids isn’t making me poor - I was poor to begin with.

@HappyMeal564

The household pot stays the same though. Wether one salary goes on or 50/50 the house is still worse off. I hear you OP, I'm not at work for the same reason

Household pot means nothing if DH were to run off

In terms of what we did: DH compressed his hours and I went part time and we scraped by for 3 years until free nursery hours kicked in.

OP, I’m in a similar situation and I think it’s just the way it is. I haven’t found a way around it.

I have DT that will turn 3yo in summer…I work 2 days a week and earn approx £500 per month with school holidays off. One day a week at nursery costs £484 per month.

We’re stretching to send them 3 days a week next year in preparation for school, our nursery bill will be £840 per month with the 30hrs free childcare taken into account.

I know people are saying about the career ladder, etc but not everybody has a “career” type role.

It’s really hard and I’m already worrying about affording it next year but I think it’s important given they missed so much socialising with lockdowns, etc.

Same here,after nursery fees, after school club fees,fuel to work and nearly £10 a day parking. I am actually minus. I am paying out to go to work. Middle earner. No benefits

The op has fallen into the trap of thinking all childcare is her responsibility and must be covered by her . If her partner shares the childcare and does drip offs or pickup she can work more than school hours and get a job which pays better . There is also the tax back on childcare that has not been taken into account . If her partner pays higher rates of once tax. It absolutely makes sense for the childcare to come out of his salary and to claim back the tax at the higher rate. ( Appreciate that may not be the case of course but the tax back element ( even at 20%) and the ability to work more hours with drop offs or pick ups shared the op should be able to work without it costing her anything though it might not bring in much until the youngest child is out of nursery.

Childcare fees for under 5s are the real killer but that does not last that long. After school clubs and holiday clubs don't cost anywhere near as much and you can still claim tax back on those payments as well

@NameChChChChanges1

Your calculation is wrong (unless you're a single parent). 50% of childcare costs should come from your salary & 50% from your partner's

I never get this sort of comment. All our wages go in one household pot, so with working full time we're worse off as a family. It's all very well thinking of your pension, but if things are tight already sometimes you have to think of now. If you've got a career with big earning potential in the future, or wouldn't be able to get into the same job level again then it would be worth going back. But if your just mid range getting by, it might be worth having a few years off and try and pick some shifts up around DH. I did care work every other weekend when dc were little.

@Donra

I see the usual idiots who can’t do basic maths are making the usual stupid comments that childcare is a shared expense. IT DOESN’T MATTER WHO PAYS IT, THE TOTAL COST IS THE SAME. Childcare costs £1100 regardless. If one person only earns £900 for example, the family is £200 out of pocket. It’s irrelevant whether you think of it as one person paying £1100 or two people paying £550 each, the maths works out the same.

OP, yes it’s very common for childcare to exceed the salary of a low earner. It’s very common for one parent to be forced to stay at home until free childcare kicks in. I was in the same situation and I couldn’t work for years because we as a family would have been worse off financially if I did.

It matters a great deal if a low earner says childcare is so expensive they need subsidies and handouts from the Government when their partner is a high earner and refuses to contribute.