AIBU- Can't afford to work

[MissRja]

Just trying to work out a return to work after having a baby In December ( also have a 4 year old in full time school ) unfortunately, my original plans for childcare have fell through, which now means we are looking at paid childcare. My current job have declined My flexible working request , which means I am looking for another job. Due to school pick up/ drops offs I am looking returning on reduced hours over 5 days or term time only. Have worked our I will be bringing home roughly £1200 after tax per month. Nursery fees will be £1100 for a four week month, or £1375 for a 5 week month. This does not include before / after school club fees. If I was to use my wages alone to pay childcare fees I would actually be losing money to work , especially when factoring in petrol , work clothes etc. Surely this can't be right. How in this day and age can I not afford to go to work !! Its ridiculous. The whole reason I am going back is because we can't afford to live off DP wages alone , but it doesn't seem like it will make a difference if i do go back to work. Am i missing something here ? What does everyone else do to work around this ? Would love to hear your experiences / advice !!

Childcare vouchers through work and a childminder, one that can drop off and collect your older one whilst looking after the baby. I've used mine for 10 years now and couldn't work without her.

Childcare has always been crippling.

Does your employer (or the new one when you find one) offer childcare vouchers as that can save a little bit of the cost.

Going back to work is important though and you may climb the ladder and you will have contributed to your pension. Even after all these years I have never gained the 2 years off I had with my DS.

@NameChChChChanges1

Your calculation is wrong (unless you're a single parent). 50% of childcare costs should come from your salary & 50% from your partner's

It doesn’t change anything about the fact that, as a family, they will have less disposable income after paying for childcare than if she goes back to work.

There is a question to ask whether your DH can work flexi time for example so you can lessen cost that way. Or any other arrangement he could have (is he wfh for example) that you would have considered.

Do you have a job, or a career?

I had a job in a role that it is notouriously easy to get - one of the ones people dismissively say 'can't you just work at...' on here when they're out of work. The pay was too shit to afford to pay into a pension from, it had almost no progression, no benefits. Child Benefit gives NI credits (until the child is 12) anyway, so giving up work was the clear and obvious solution, when I realised childcare cost more than my pay. As a family, we would have been paying for me to work, rather than working for pay.

If you have a career, or a hard to get role, it might be worth it to maintain the position, but for many people (like me), working with young children makes your family pot lower than not working, without any of the percieved benefits being suggested here (pension, progression etc).

@chubbachub is your husband paying into a pension for you or just his own? How do you anticipate equalising the difference in your pensions? If you divorced you would have to go through court to get a sharing order if he decided not to disclose how much is in it or be fair about sharing it. Just things to think about for YOUR future. Even without divorce it would mean that you would have your own financial independence in retirement.

@Herja

Do you have a job, or a career?

I had a job in a role that it is notouriously easy to get - one of the ones people dismissively say 'can't you just work at...' on here when they're out of work. The pay was too shit to afford to pay into a pension from, it had almost no progression, no benefits. Child Benefit gives NI credits (until the child is 12) anyway, so giving up work was the clear and obvious solution, when I realised childcare cost more than my pay. As a family, we would have been paying for me to work, rather than working for pay.

If you have a career, or a hard to get role, it might be worth it to maintain the position, but for many people (like me), working with young children makes your family pot lower than not working, without any of the percieved benefits being suggested here (pension, progression etc).

This is a good point. I'd (foolishly) only thought of it from the perspective of a career. I can see why in some roles it doesn't make sense to work.

@NameChChChChanges1

Your calculation is wrong (unless you're a single parent). 50% of childcare costs should come from your salary & 50% from your partner's

I never understand this argument of 50/50.

Fair enough if all your money is separate, but with dh and me, all our earnings go into one account.

Working at the moment would cost me more than I earn in childcare. Even if we said dh was paying half the childcare, it still wouldn’t make a difference as it all goes in the same pot and we’d still be paying out more than I earned.

Look at childminder if you can’t find a nursery that does shorter days that match your working times more

@Herja

Do you have a job, or a career?

I had a job in a role that it is notouriously easy to get - one of the ones people dismissively say 'can't you just work at...' on here when they're out of work. The pay was too shit to afford to pay into a pension from, it had almost no progression, no benefits. Child Benefit gives NI credits (until the child is 12) anyway, so giving up work was the clear and obvious solution, when I realised childcare cost more than my pay. As a family, we would have been paying for me to work, rather than working for pay.

If you have a career, or a hard to get role, it might be worth it to maintain the position, but for many people (like me), working with young children makes your family pot lower than not working, without any of the percieved benefits being suggested here (pension, progression etc).

That’s the position I’m in too. A job in care, not a career, there’s no prospects.

@Herja pension contributions are not taken into account for UC so unless you earn over the amount that UC deem is reasonable to live on, pension contributions are always a good thing.

You can't afford not to work, never be financially dependent on a man.

Claim the childcare help and make sure your husband pays half the fees and does half the pick ups

Are there any Barnardos nurseries where you are? DNephew goes to one and it's a bit cheaper (and just as good) as a normal nursery.

I know people are saying to return to work but if you can't afford to do it now maybe wait.

I heard on TV or radio a woman who was using trains to get to work as petrol was too expensive at the moment.

Sorry not read all the replies but would you not be entitled to Universal credit childcare element which would pay up to 85% of childcare costs? Or as others have said tax free childcare.
We had four kids and the only way we managed it was to work around each other. DH did 9-5 and I did nights and weekends. It wasn't ideal and I was lucky I was already established in a career that incorporated shift work. It's what lots of people have to do for a few years unfortunately.

Even if we said dh was paying half the childcare, it still wouldn’t make a difference as it all goes in the same pot and we’d still be paying out more than I earned

What about what he earns? What about your pension, what about your ability to get a job later, what about financial independence? If when taking all benefits into account you genuinely can’t afford to work at all, then you need to do what you must but the bottom line is working is not just about what you take home at the end of the month and you seldom see a man saying the same thing.

@GeneLovesJezebel

If you were working you’d be paying NI towards your ‘old age’ pension though, and would you be paying towards a private pension too ? Sometimes you have to think about the long term benefits, and I know that’s hard when it seems a long way off. But personally, I was SAHM for a couple of years, then started working the odd shift when DH was home.

The NI argument doesn't hold water. If you are claiming child benefit for a child under 12, you get full NI credits. (Applies even if partner is higher earner and the child benefit is taken back through their tax return.)

@catsandquails

It's worth looking to see if you might be entitled to UC. They include 80% of childcare costs (up to a certain amount) before deductions for earnings are made. The online calculators are apparently unreliable though so it's best to try to work it out yourself if you can.

I've found entitledto to be pretty accurate for UC. None of them are brilliant for legacy benefits, esp. where disability is involved, because it all gets so much more complex.

I work in welfare rights and we did a little exercise of comparing the results from the specialist software we use (which is brilliantly accurate, even with tax credits) with various of the public access ones, and entitledto came out with the best accuracy rate.

You need to look at this as a team effort - yes it a pain that it feels like your working to pay nursery fees but like others have said it should be looked at as a 50/50 cost.

Until more fathers step up and support working mothers - employers need to also take note. I work in IT in a heavily male environment with high contractors earning a lot! BUT the majority of the males have requested flexi time (even though annoyingly it felt like they where amazing that aside!) we have fathers working 4 days, some shared maternity leave and most help with drop offs/pick ups.

My husband is one of those with a big fancy job and earns well - but we choose to have children and he does his share which enabled us to take on the fees etc. Without excuses as to why he can’t - we have to be very organised we have a shared diary which enables us both to see what’s needed.

Look at what works and he without expectation should be a shared effort.

For us breakfast club and nursery drop of was husbands - meant I worked earlier and finished earlier to do the pick ups. I worked one long day so we used the afterschool club. (Also meant if he then did have to work away I could pop her in the afterschool club and it wasn’t something she wasn’t used too) This has meant in my own right i have a decent pension, holiday pay! And my children our now 18 and 12 they fine and haven’t been damaged by having a working mum. In turn they have a good relationship with their Dad.

Look at the savings that exist - We used to use vouchers and they can be used for nursery/school clubs & holiday clubs. And the long term - it will be hard for probably the next two years but then free hours kick in and then school. And by then you may have got a new job and can ask for flexi time to do the school pick ups etc

Do what’s right for you, if you’d prefer to be a SAHP then own that and protect yourself from any possible long term issues (pensions etc) maybe look to retrain etc but don’t close the door on YOUR future just because it feels ‘pointless’ working now.

@Kingharoldshairstyle

Even if we said dh was paying half the childcare, it still wouldn’t make a difference as it all goes in the same pot and we’d still be paying out more than I earned

What about what he earns? What about your pension, what about your ability to get a job later, what about financial independence? If when taking all benefits into account you genuinely can’t afford to work at all, then you need to do what you must but the bottom line is working is not just about what you take home at the end of the month and you seldom see a man saying the same thing.

I worked in care. Minimum wage. And I went back to college as an adult to retrain to do that. I couldn’t afford to contribute to a pension when I was working.

@RedskyThisNight

Part of the issue if you are paying full time nursery but only working part time hours.

You might well find the sums work out better if you work (say) 3 full days and put your 4 year old in before/after school club on those days, but only pay for 3 days of nursery.

Can you/your partner change hours so one of you does drop offs and one does pickups?

Have you looked at childminders? You might find that works out cheaper if you just pay for school hours.

I was going to suggest 3 full days, too. It worked out much better for a friend of mine.

And if you have an expensive commute, it can reduce the travel costs too.

Could your DP do compressed hours? If he could do the same hours over four days, you'd save a full day of childcare costs.

@IncompleteSenten

You're not paying childcare alone though. You're paying half.

Instead of working in out by individual incomes, add them together and work out total expenditure. Is there more or less left after total expenses if you are working?

Then factor in the damage to your career by years not working and decide what value working has to you beyond the money. It may be worth having less now in order to have more later.

This, plus factor on pension contributions and career progression as financial factors, as well as taxfree childcare allowance.

I decided to screw the career. I worked part time evening and weekends and started a business in our spare room.

You have to way up where you want to be in 10 years time. If the career is important in the field your in then taking the financial hit is worth it.

Not sure of your situation and whether you're single or married?

If single: Claim UC and you can get up to 85% of childcare fees paid back. On UC you will always be better off working than not. I would also look at childminders rather than nurseries as they will be a lot cheaper and (in my opinion) offer better care. You can look at working FT if you can find a CM who will do wraparound care for your child who is at school too.

If in a couple: Look at UC and see if you can still qualify with your partners wages. Childcare costs should be split between you both and not just replied upon you to pay.

I've just done 2 years paying £500 (minus 20% tax free) to earn about £800 (minus commuting costs). Completely worth it. Now DS is 3 we pay £110 a month and I have been promoted.

IT isn't worth working for everyone.

As others point out, if you have a basic job with few benefits and no real career progression, the gains of remaining in work can be few.

Lots of people have jobs not careers. Their pension contribution from the employer is the minimum and they can't afford to make their own contribution (especially with childcare costs). Lots of jobs give basically zero sick pay for early sickness. Lots of people will be earning the same in 10 years and won't see any career progression and being in the job longer won't confer any benefits in terms of pay. Lots are on zero hours contracts so actually their work is irregular and they can be paying for childcare without even knowing how many hours they will be earning for.

People forget that large proportions of the population don't have a career. They aren't on a trajectory to promotion and personal fulfilment in the workplace. They do jobs they hate and which treat them poorly and give them limited security.

Yes, for those with career prospects it can be worth taking the hit and even being worse off by working for a short time. But that isn't the same as people in essentially dead-end jobs.