AIBU- Can't afford to work

[MissRja]

Just trying to work out a return to work after having a baby In December ( also have a 4 year old in full time school ) unfortunately, my original plans for childcare have fell through, which now means we are looking at paid childcare. My current job have declined My flexible working request , which means I am looking for another job. Due to school pick up/ drops offs I am looking returning on reduced hours over 5 days or term time only. Have worked our I will be bringing home roughly £1200 after tax per month. Nursery fees will be £1100 for a four week month, or £1375 for a 5 week month. This does not include before / after school club fees. If I was to use my wages alone to pay childcare fees I would actually be losing money to work , especially when factoring in petrol , work clothes etc. Surely this can't be right. How in this day and age can I not afford to go to work !! Its ridiculous. The whole reason I am going back is because we can't afford to live off DP wages alone , but it doesn't seem like it will make a difference if i do go back to work. Am i missing something here ? What does everyone else do to work around this ? Would love to hear your experiences / advice !!

Could you work evenings/weekends? That's what my parents had to do, work opposite hours to each other when they had young children.

Your career will suffer if you don't work, and you will also lose pension benefits. Economically, it is better to work, even if you only break even some years.

Can you go part time in your job role? If you lived off your DP wage you would claim UC. Check the calculator online OP.

I worked unsocial hours opposite my husband as there was no childcare available then, even if we could have afforded it (well, very little)

Was tough going, but pretty usual among our friends

I'm reading this and surely the most important thing here is spending time with the children.

Women have been sold a pup about being able to have a career, family etc something has to give.

All this talk about the father going out to work freely etc it's not free choice is it , he is paying for the family to live.

At this stage you need to sit down with your dp and tell him that it's time you both worked out what to do regarding you going back to work. Tell him I know that we can't live on his wage alone so at the moment we need to look at our expenses and make savings where we can.
I know you told us that your current job are not willing to give you the hours you want so you have to change jobs. Would your job let you work 2 or 3 days a week instead?
Would dp job let him work 3 or 4 days a week? So say Monday to Friday with both of you working 3 or 4 days and that one of you would be at home to mind the baby and collect the child from school?
Could your dp work 4 long day rather than 5 days?
Could your dp get a better job or get a bit of flexibility from his boss if you got a job?
Rather than term time only jobs with certain hours I look for evening work or even work on a Sat and Sunday when he home to mind the kids.
With working less hours your tax bill for both would be smaller and you might be entitled to some government help with childcare down the line.
I know it hard going when kids are small and child care is expensive but long term you need to work. You need to contribute to your own ni record and pay into a pension for yourself.

If you are unmarried you would be unwise to give up your job.

Many women shoulder all the responsibility for childcare and then get to mid life and realise they have no financial protection. Your pension is very important. If you are working you will be saving for your future.

Is your partner prepared to give up his pension to make more cash available to the family?

I'm interested to know what sacrifices and modifications to his job your DP is planning on.

You working to pay the majority of your pay to the person you are hiring to do your job.

This should be common knowledge.

I was shocked by the number of people who called me lazy for being a SAHM (one of the first to have kids in my group) that then had kids and was somehow shocked by this revelation that children need looking after and people need to be paid full working wages to do that if you don't do it yourself obviously their wage comes out of your wage thus cancelling it unless you make a lot of money.

I think your problem is trying to spread reduced hours over 5 days. By doing that for school pick ups you’re not getting best value from nursery.
The best way to reduce nursery bills is to drop an entire day or two of work and work longer hours on nursery days.
To do that you need after school club and shared pick ups with your dh.

Eg. if you work long days Monday to wed and dh picks up from after school club then you take thur and Fri off work and do all school runs those days. That way you pay 3x nursery plus 3x asc which is likely far less than 5x nursery.

Childcare is a joint expense. It does not all come out of your wages. Your partner is responsible for at least half, more if he earns more.

Don't fall into this trap, it devalues everything you do.

@mam0918

You working to pay the majority of your pay to the person you are hiring to do your job.

This should be common knowledge.

I was shocked by the number of people who called me lazy for being a SAHM (one of the first to have kids in my group) that then had kids and was somehow shocked by this revelation that children need looking after and people need to be paid full working wages to do that if you don't do it yourself obviously their wage comes out of your wage thus cancelling it unless you make a lot of money.

It's a shame there isn't more help available for those who want to have kids. Most of my kids early childhood involved us both being like single parents. I would have the kids all week then work nights or weekends and then dh would care for them alone most of the weekend. It was relentless and exhausting and I have few happy memories of this time which is sad. Looking back I was lucky I did not become seriously mentally or physically ill . In some ways I was lucky because I only ever had to work 2 or 3 shifts a week. I have friend currently who works full time compressed into 4 long days and toddler at nursery four days. She's always stressed and trying to juggle things. I just hope the stress doesn't rub off on the kids. My kids ( now teenagers) say they have childhood memories of having to be quiet all weekend as I was sleeping after nightshifts. I feel so guilty but there was no other option. They did go out a lot at weekends etc. It feels like life shouldn't be this stressful with young kids.

What does everyone else do?

There isn't a one size all thing how people work.

Some like me have a DP who works long days for 3-4 days per week so they can look after the child(ren) on the days they aren't working. Others are the parent who is the one that works the long days.

Others have both partners working PT like one of my friends' did for a while.

Others have both partners who have some flexibility to their work. For example it has been the norm for me for the last ten years to have male colleagues who will say they can't have meetings after x time because they have to look after their kids. You will then find they are working in the evenings.

Other couples work around each other. So I have had siblings, colleagues and neighbours who the male partner has to come in by X time so their wife/partner can go to work.

There isn't a one size that fits all thing about who does takes time off to look after sick children.

There isn't a one size that fits all thing on childcare
We started with just a CM but now use a nursery as well.

Other people are lucky enough to have family who can help out completely or with a CM/nursery.

What is the pity is that so much work is so poorly paid, that 2 people can work and the salary isn’t enough for them to pay childcare and live.

For those who earn good money, it works.

And yes, of course childcarers needs to earn their own living wages. The irony is that whilst childcare feels extortionately expensive, often those doing the job get very little themselves and probably can barely afford their own childcare.

The days of when one working class worker could earn enought o support a whole family and pay the mortgage are gone. Even 2 full time salaries often don’t cover it.

The world is more polarised. There are those who have good jobs and earn well and have lots of options. We’ve returned to the Victorian age where lots of families are in poverty, even with people working. Doesn’t help the low-skilled now, but it reminds you again how vital education and gaining decent career options are, for your future porosepcts.

I worked at a loss to keep my career going. Suited me but may not suit you.

@DisforDarkChocolate

Childcare is a joint expense. It does not all come out of your wages. Your partner is responsible for at least half, more if he earns more.

Don't fall into this trap, it devalues everything you do.

But none of that makes them any more able to afford it!

The key things that can help and make a difference are;

• Working longer days. Compressed hours is mean less days of childcare needed. You need to make sure you work plenty of hours though - part time simply won’t bring enough cash in.
• Yes to flexible working for one or both of you. DH shouldn’t be looking to ‘purely work’. Some of the dropping off/picking up needs to fall on him because this is what allows you to do more hours.

Often in some families, men (and women) see men in very traditional roles. They think of them going to work and that thinking about childcare and making it happen all falls on the woman. That doesn’t work now. Women need to work more hours and they have to travel to work and come home and the picking up and dropping kids needs to be a joint burden. If it’s not, the options for the other partner to earn are severely curtailed. So couple have to think creatively. Yes, it often means they get little time at home. It may well mean that the man has to cook the kids their tea which they get home, rather than the woman doing it. The man might feel that’s not his job as he’s been at work all day….but it’s simply the parents job and everyone needs to work hard both in the workplace and the home to make it happen. Children and org arising g kids is no longer down women and the more tight the budget, the more flexible both parents need to be.

Has DP put in in a flexible working request?

The key information we need is whether you have a partner and what they earn.

If you have one, they need to chip on to childcare costs.

If you don’t, you can claim for childcare cost support.

Posters here will help you figure it out if you give the full info.

I was/am in the same scenario. I had no one who could help with any dropoffs/pickups/holidays and at the time was taking home £1100 per month. Full time nursery was coming in at £1200 minimum plus the cost to get to work etc.

So I gave up my job to be a sahm. My son is 4 and starts school in September and I'm hoping to be able to find something then as I really miss working!

We are very fortunate that my parents provide 4 days childcare for our youngest and do school drop offs for our other primary aged children. I do compressed hours and wfh full time. If we didn't have help we'd be looking at about £90+ a day childcare (nursery plus 2× wraparound), which would eat up into our salaries.

Apply for tax free childcare (20% back) see if you can do 4 days compressed in a new job so you are paying for 4 nursery days and wrap around for the other child (3 really with the tax free childcare). So ft wage and only 4 days childcare. You could even see if your husband could do the same so you are only needing 3 days childcare. No idea what you do but maybe one of you can do morning drop-off at school if you can wfh and it's close by, saving on wraparound too.

It makes me mad that there isn't more help to encourage more parents to work. People on benefits can get free childcare for 2 years olds, granted I know this is to help provide the child with opportunities being from a low income family. Parents working in your middle earners bracket (where most sit) are often forced to make the decision to not work as it doesn't make financial sense with childcare costs so high.

My friend is a physio, she returned to work after mat leave and her entire wage was eaten by childcare, she was effectively working for nothing. She was fortunate her husband is on a decent salary so she took the decision to return to work, keep up her practicing, pay into her pension and continue to progress her career. Obviously childcare came out their joint salary but she felt like she was working for nothing.

I think op has a point and some posters may be projecting their own circumstances. The family as a whole will be worse off if op works- saying her dp should pay his share of the childcare doesn’t help.

NI contributions will be paid for 12 years if you get child benefit so no difference there. Also op seems to be a low earner. She may miss out on career advancement and significant pension contributions if she gives up work but this may not be the case. A lot of jobs don’t have much scope for advancement and a couple of years out a dc pension at ops level of earnings won’t make much difference.

All of these are definitely things to take into account op but may not be relevant to you

@Tigofigo

In terms of what we did: DH compressed his hours and I went part time and we scraped by for 3 years until free nursery hours kicked in.

Friends who have been in this situation have done exactly that sort of thing.

One couple both compressed their hours into 4 days, and had different days off, so they only had to pay for 3 days childcare.

Another reduced from f/t to 3 days. She did childcare 2 days pw, her partner always had Mondays off and did childcare then, and they had a childminder for the other 2 days. When she factored in her saving in travel costs and the fact that her income had dropped below the threshold for repaying her student loan, she was better off than she had been working f/t before she had the baby.

One colleague took the full year of mat leave and at the end of it, her DH took a year's sabbatical, and did a masters while providing childcare. They were entitled to child and working tax credits during this period, because of the drop in income. They boxed clever with the 6 week annual leave entitlement they both got, and managed almost 2.5 years before they had to pay childcare, then they sucked up the cost of the 6 months childcare they had to pay for before their child reached 3.

Colleagues are often able to find all sorts of creative solutions. Two women in another team job share and each looks after the other's child on non-working days. But we are lucky enough to work for an organisation that really puts its money where its mouth is with regard to family friendly policies, so unless there pretty serious operational reasons for not being flexible, they'll be flexible.

Hi,
Does your partners job allow him to look after the kids evenings or weekends while you work?

I was looking at jobs online yesterday and round here a lot is advertised for weekends and nights. If you worked a fri and sat night you could sleep Saturday and Sunday and make, say 23hrs pay in 2 days.

If it was the right type of work lots of production is 6-2 or 2-10 and if you worked at the same place you could ask for opposite shifts and hand the little one over.

One of you have an early start/early finish job and the other a later start/finish type job. You might manage with just afternoons at the nursery and the early person does school pick up.

Got to get creative if you want to both work without lots of childcare bills.

Do you claim universal credit op? You can claim back up to 85% of childcare costs.