AIBU- Can't afford to work

[MissRja]

Just trying to work out a return to work after having a baby In December ( also have a 4 year old in full time school ) unfortunately, my original plans for childcare have fell through, which now means we are looking at paid childcare. My current job have declined My flexible working request , which means I am looking for another job. Due to school pick up/ drops offs I am looking returning on reduced hours over 5 days or term time only. Have worked our I will be bringing home roughly £1200 after tax per month. Nursery fees will be £1100 for a four week month, or £1375 for a 5 week month. This does not include before / after school club fees. If I was to use my wages alone to pay childcare fees I would actually be losing money to work , especially when factoring in petrol , work clothes etc. Surely this can't be right. How in this day and age can I not afford to go to work !! Its ridiculous. The whole reason I am going back is because we can't afford to live off DP wages alone , but it doesn't seem like it will make a difference if i do go back to work. Am i missing something here ? What does everyone else do to work around this ? Would love to hear your experiences / advice !!

Match = maths

The OP had some childcare sorted (not paid for, so I assume a family member) but that fell through. That’s why she’s having to investigate paid options now. Don’t kick her when she’s down.

I became a sahm for this reason. However, youngest is now in school, career is back on track and everything is good! In your shoes, I would stay at home for a couple of years.

We both extended our working hours to reduce the number of days at nursery we had to pay for. Not everyone is in a job that has that option, but worth looking into if it's possible for you. It was hard, though, as it meant very long says in nursery.

as DP has a van for work I think we can assme he has a trade, in lots of trades you are a "worker" ( this is an offical term it's a sort of half way house you get paid holidays but you are cntracted for a certain job not necessarily permanently and you have to provide own tools and possibly van transoort for said tools and equipment, pay for your own safety certificates and courses and PPE) rather than employee or self employed you will be able to offset some against tax but it's complicated
also these trade type jobs often expect you to work with others like a production line; so it's not a one person job so if you leave early the rest of team can't work so it makes drop offs and pick ups very tricky as often hours are 8-5, they make decent money but flexible hours are not were it is at as site is opened and locked and they want max work in that time frame

Ok so one thing that winds me up is all the people saying about childcare being 50/50.
It isn’t wrong as a concept, but the fact of the matter is, the total money pot won’t change.
It sounds quite clear that OP and DH share finances.
So the 50-50 has no play.

Also, all the people mentioning career progression, NI contributions, etc are assuming OP IS in a CAREER. Is she?
She could be packing groceries at Asda or working in a post office or for a small business with almost no career progression.

Now OP, I haven’t read the full thread just yet, so maybe I haven’t seen updates with you giving more details.. but there more suggestions out there for you other than the excellent ones of looking for shorter days, UC help, etc.

This assumes you are not in a specific career which you hold dear or that is very competitive (I.e. harder to get back to).
The suggestion of working one or two long days when DH is off is excellent imo.
You already mentioned you’re looking for a new job, so I think that nothing is off limits.

1. Speak to current work once more and state that you’re not able to back to work otherwise.

Sometimes it just isn’t possible for the business. That’s ok. You must move on.

1. If DH works Mo-Fri or Mo-Sat, work on the days that he’s off. Restaurant, coffee shop, Asda, Tesco, lidl, etc. no childcare and all extra cash. Even if little, still better than nothing.

1. Are you literate enough with technology? (Not meaning it in an offensive way.. I just don’t know you) maybe work from home positions are a possibility? Even part time ones? Or data entry?

There’s often opportunities. Virtual Assistant, Data Entry, Bookkeeping, translator, etc.

1. Self employed route…. Knowing what you know now about just HOW expensive nursery is.could you not organise to be a childminder for a couple of mums?

So you can stay with your little one while also looking after 1 or 2 kids while your younger DC is small. Maybe you discover you like it and could have a small childcare business out of your home. Whether formally or informally, depending on how many kids you plan to have). Say if a nursery is £1000+ for 5 days 8am-5pm, could you look after a child for say £500-£600 per month? Surely that’s quite a bit of money? (I have no experience in how this works, so I might be speaking out of my arse on this one.. but still might be worth looking into!)

1. Dog walking could be a new hobby if that’s a thing in your area.

1. Free-Lancing. There are a lot of tasks on sites like fiver.com and similar which are ALWAYS remote, some of them are stuff like typing and data entry.

There are websites which make you do Captioning which is quite nice if you can get a decent typing speed. (There are websites for that too!)

1. Hobbies. Something like producing Etsy artefacts if you’re capable, or knitting, cake making, painting, etc might be options.

8.Tutoring.
Is there any subject you used to excel at or that you could get back up to speed with?

9.Ironing/washing clothes?

10.Cleaning?

Some of these suggestions may not be the equivalent of the Full-time income, but they are actually more profitable on the “balancing end” of incomings vs outgoings if that makes sense for now until DC are older and in school.

Some of the above suggestions may not work for everyone, but please don’t insult, these are just MY suggestions that may make you think outside of the “usual” positions and roles.

It will also largely depend on you OP if you need £200 extra to keep the household afloat or £600. (I’m talking about basics to survive and pay the bills, not a comfortable lifestyle. As that may come with time).

Good luck with everything!

@MissRja

Are you married to your DP, OP?

I was under the impression that you're not, hence my original response that you need to have him pay his fair share of childcare expenses so you can work. You have less protection if you're not married in the UK and your relationship breaks down, so considerably more important to keep your career going, even though it feels like you'll be working just to pay for childcare.

It seems you are making this only fall on you. If your husband chipped in and also arranges some flexibility you could reduce the paid childcare and do half time which would then end up giving you better financial stability plus the added benifit of your husband not turning into the classic "i provide fory family so I don't do any effort to take care of the kids" asshole. Why o why is it only you who is trying to make compromise here?

@321user123

Ok so one thing that winds me up is all the people saying about childcare being 50/50. It isn’t wrong as a concept, but the fact of the matter is, the total money pot won’t change. It sounds quite clear that OP and DH share finances. So the 50-50 has no play.

Also, all the people mentioning career progression, NI contributions, etc are assuming OP IS in a CAREER. Is she?
She could be packing groceries at Asda or working in a post office or for a small business with almost no career progression.

Now OP, I haven’t read the full thread just yet, so maybe I haven’t seen updates with you giving more details.. but there more suggestions out there for you other than the excellent ones of looking for shorter days, UC help, etc.

This assumes you are not in a specific career which you hold dear or that is very competitive (I.e. harder to get back to).
The suggestion of working one or two long days when DH is off is excellent imo.
You already mentioned you’re looking for a new job, so I think that nothing is off limits.

1. Speak to current work once more and state that you’re not able to back to work otherwise.

Sometimes it just isn’t possible for the business. That’s ok. You must move on.

1. If DH works Mo-Fri or Mo-Sat, work on the days that he’s off. Restaurant, coffee shop, Asda, Tesco, lidl, etc. no childcare and all extra cash. Even if little, still better than nothing.

1. Are you literate enough with technology? (Not meaning it in an offensive way.. I just don’t know you) maybe work from home positions are a possibility? Even part time ones? Or data entry?

There’s often opportunities. Virtual Assistant, Data Entry, Bookkeeping, translator, etc.

1. Self employed route…. Knowing what you know now about just HOW expensive nursery is.could you not organise to be a childminder for a couple of mums?

So you can stay with your little one while also looking after 1 or 2 kids while your younger DC is small. Maybe you discover you like it and could have a small childcare business out of your home. Whether formally or informally, depending on how many kids you plan to have). Say if a nursery is £1000+ for 5 days 8am-5pm, could you look after a child for say £500-£600 per month? Surely that’s quite a bit of money? (I have no experience in how this works, so I might be speaking out of my arse on this one.. but still might be worth looking into!)

1. Dog walking could be a new hobby if that’s a thing in your area.

1. Free-Lancing. There are a lot of tasks on sites like fiver.com and similar which are ALWAYS remote, some of them are stuff like typing and data entry.

There are websites which make you do Captioning which is quite nice if you can get a decent typing speed. (There are websites for that too!)

1. Hobbies. Something like producing Etsy artefacts if you’re capable, or knitting, cake making, painting, etc might be options.

8.Tutoring.
Is there any subject you used to excel at or that you could get back up to speed with?

9.Ironing/washing clothes?

10.Cleaning?

Some of these suggestions may not be the equivalent of the Full-time income, but they are actually more profitable on the “balancing end” of incomings vs outgoings if that makes sense for now until DC are older and in school.

Some of the above suggestions may not work for everyone, but please don’t insult, these are just MY suggestions that may make you think outside of the “usual” positions and roles.

It will also largely depend on you OP if you need £200 extra to keep the household afloat or £600. (I’m talking about basics to survive and pay the bills, not a comfortable lifestyle. As that may come with time).

Good luck with everything!

@MissRja

Your suggestions are really good but I disagree with the assertion that the 50/50 responsibility of the parents is irrelevant. She isn’t in the same situation in terms of ability for her and partner to finance and care for their family without subsidised childcare as a single parent would be. Neither are they as limited as a single parent in terms of having choices regarding e.g her being through one to pursue the career if she wished, them both pursing careers on reduced hours or even both pursuing careers with the support already available. I’ve been a single parent and now a married mother and I can never understand why mothers on here never seem to discuss this issue in the context of them being in a partnership???

@BlueOverYellow

Are you married to your DP, OP?

I was under the impression that you're not, hence my original response that you need to have him pay his fair share of childcare expenses so you can work. You have less protection if you're not married in the UK and your relationship breaks down, so considerably more important to keep your career going, even though it feels like you'll be working just to pay for childcare.

Absolutely agree, if your not married your on a different playing field. He needs to facilitate 50% of childcare so that you can carry on working so you don’t lose career progression, pension etc otherwise you risk being left with nothing except years working as hard as you would of in any job looking after the house and kids and a man leaving you with nothing and telling you to be grateful for ‘supporting’ you for the last x years :( been there, done that. If your married then it’s quite different, you should in theory both be entitled to 50/50 if the worst should happen so can work as a partnership. If he doesn’t want to work as a partnership then your far better off as a single parent as would then be entitled to more help from UC/childcare support plus mandated maintenance

I might have expressed the 50-50 situation wrong and being married maybe I’m misunderstanding the issue.

My (and many others) point is, if DP is earning
£2,000 and OP is earning 1,200 that totals £3,200 at the end of the month.
If the current expenses are £2,200 the current DP waged don't cover that, the existing expenses.
If the new expenses after OP returns to work are now £3,450, it does not change the fact the total income is £3,200 a month.

I only understand the 50-50 situation if there is disposable income left at the end of the month from Salary 1. If there isn’t the conversation makes no sense because however you do the math it still totals the same.

OP has expressed that due to their situation and the type of professions is not possible for DP/DH to be more flexible. (He’s a trade/construction worker).
OP is not in a position where there is career progression.

She has also expressed that currently feeding her family takes priority over NI contributions and other stuff.

So really PT work along the lines of what was mentioned above may be the only route.

I understand people’s suggestions about she not being a single parent, I do, but not everyone is in a flexible work environment or the same situation.
I believe that if she was the high earner in the couple, her work would be prioritised over DH, but has OP stated that is not the case and it sucks even more that both of their employments are not flexible.

@321user123

I might have expressed the 50-50 situation wrong and being married maybe I’m misunderstanding the issue.

My (and many others) point is, if DP is earning
£2,000 and OP is earning 1,200 that totals £3,200 at the end of the month.
If the current expenses are £2,200 the current DP waged don't cover that, the existing expenses.
If the new expenses after OP returns to work are now £3,450, it does not change the fact the total income is £3,200 a month.

I only understand the 50-50 situation if there is disposable income left at the end of the month from Salary 1. If there isn’t the conversation makes no sense because however you do the math it still totals the same.

OP has expressed that due to their situation and the type of professions is not possible for DP/DH to be more flexible. (He’s a trade/construction worker).
OP is not in a position where there is career progression.

She has also expressed that currently feeding her family takes priority over NI contributions and other stuff.

So really PT work along the lines of what was mentioned above may be the only route.

I understand people’s suggestions about she not being a single parent, I do, but not everyone is in a flexible work environment or the same situation.
I believe that if she was the high earner in the couple, her work would be prioritised over DH, but has OP stated that is not the case and it sucks even more that both of their employments are not flexible.

They’ve got far more options than a single parent who has no childcare support. If she is particularly eager to work but her salary does not cover the cost of childcare then they could both work part time e.g. if they both worked 26 hours a week each, even at the minimum wage they would bring in £2100 pcm between them and he wouldn’t necessarily need to be in a job where he needs such an expensive van and fuel costs and they would still be entitled to their child benefit and an amount of UC and even childcare help if they needed it. Either could work full time and one of them part time, they could both work full time staggering their days and thus needing less childcare. There are lots of options to they don’t seem to have considered and they need to remember full time childcare is proportionally more expensive as you only get a maximum TFC supplement of 2k per year per child, which e.g. in our area means you only get the discount on the first 3.5-4 days of childcare. Tax and national insurance wise too, a couple both working part time receive 25k total free in tax and NI allowance whereas a single earner household with earnings of 25k receives only a a 12.5k allowance so pays a good amount of that on tax/NI, potentially extra in student loan repayments etc too, which wouldn’t be payable with 2 people who both earn 12.5k. If she stayed at home she said she had £85 a month plus £150 pcm child benefit after essential bills and food so that’s £235 a month for clothes, savings, occasional treats etc, given the figures she gave she would also be entitled to £235 UC so that’s actually nearly £500 disposable income, a lot more than many families have. There is extra financial and childcare support for them anyway if her figures are accurate and even if they are both desperate to work there are so many different ways they could without the country taxing everyone to high hilt to pay for all new parents childcare

I don't think many people understand how difficult it is to find part-time work that doesn't require a particular type of experience and is fixed days/hours around childcare. Retail is on a rota. Call-centres are on a rota. School positions are usually 5 days a week termtime. I did strike gold and find one, but for example next week I am having to do an extra day to do some exams and training so paying for extra nursery.

If you don’t want to stay in your current role long term/no prospects I’d look for a role evenings or weekends. Supermarket, care, hospitality. Even if it’s NMW you’ll be better off as no childcare.
Or be a student now not later (you mentioned re training at Uni) and you’d get student loan and childcare assistance.

@BulletTrain

I don't think many people understand how difficult it is to find part-time work that doesn't require a particular type of experience and is fixed days/hours around childcare. Retail is on a rota. Call-centres are on a rota. School positions are usually 5 days a week termtime. I did strike gold and find one, but for example next week I am having to do an extra day to do some exams and training so paying for extra nursery.

I don’t think it’s that people don’t understand but it’s what we’ve all had to go through. That’s not to say that the government shouldn’t be making it easier for future generations of parents by promoting more flexibility, obviously it won’t be possible for all positions to accommodate this but for example in the field I work in there was absolutely no flexibility for years and then with combination of labour shortages and the government promoting public sector flexible working myself and colleagues have now been able to work set days which has slashed our childcare bills as we’re not having to pay for full time childcare just in case we get rostered a particular day as we know e.g that we’ll only be working e.g. Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays not any 3 days our of 7. There was no really good reason why this couldn’t have been done before except an employer policy that just didn’t want to give up the flexibility it gave them should they ever need it, but the difference this no cost solution to parents and others in the workplace is absolutely huge. In terms of minimum wage work most people will find is they spend a little while looking they will find something to fit, loads of friends have been able to and my older children have all found work which fitted around college days etc. If it’s a particular field your interested in it’s sometimes worth doing it even if your not going to be immediately financially better off. When I started my current job there were months when we paid more in childcare than I earned and I really wasn’t expecting there to be any flexibility so assumed that would be the case until we got the funded hours but both my job and after school care for older child become more flexible so we’re much better off now and not long either until we get the funded hours so long term it’s worked out really well. However I love my job, if didn’t would of just opted to enjoy the time at home with little one and look at trim back home expenses to a bare minimum like many of my SAHM friends do

You're not going to get a job that's in school hours and term time only.
I suggest you look at ways between you to increase flexibility. 1 cover pick ups, the other drop offs. Look into shift work, most early shifts finish before school pick up. Nights would mean you could do both pick up and drop off.

It may mean a career change.

@Autumn42 I know we've all had to do it, but you get a lot of suggestions on these threads like "Why don't you both work 26 hours a week" and the chances of both finding something part-time with minimal crossover hours is very very slim! Compressed hours for one or both can be easier.

Op is in a good position as she has a car and a partner to mind the children evenings or weekends. I bet if you look around you’ll be surprised how many opportunities there are. I’ve worked in factories as a student that ran twilight shifts.
If you’ve got office skills something like this might suit.
uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=c4c0b0d3dd1786b9&from=serp
A lot of employers realise they can get better candidates for NMW if the offer the right hours.

[quote BulletTrain]@Autumn42 I know we've all had to do it, but you get a lot of suggestions on these threads like "Why don't you both work 26 hours a week" and the chances of both finding something part-time with minimal crossover hours is very very slim! Compressed hours for one or both can be easier.[/quote]
The 26 hours is just an example of what could both work at minimum wage and bring in, it didn’t say no childcare would be needed (unless your lucky enough to both find a job with no cross over) it said minimal. So if I take the combined example of myself and friends and family it might typically involve one working Sunday and Monday day/night shifts in a care home (24 hours) a week earning £1040 take home and the other working part time has to work Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays 8-6 (36 hours with an unpaid break) earning £1700 per month take home so the take home is £2640 and they spend £225 a month on the day at nursery and breakfast and after-school club for the Monday when they need childcare cover leaving them with £2515 plus the £150 child benefit so £2665 a month after childcare. This is a typical example of a lot of families I know and they seem to manage quite fine on this and both get the opportunity to work

P.s. if they’re both working 26 hours at minimum wage then they would most certainly be entitled to UC as well

@Dixiechickonhols

Op is in a good position as she has a car and a partner to mind the children evenings or weekends. I bet if you look around you’ll be surprised how many opportunities there are. I’ve worked in factories as a student that ran twilight shifts. If you’ve got office skills something like this might suit. uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=c4c0b0d3dd1786b9&from=serp A lot of employers realise they can get better candidates for NMW if the offer the right hours.

Absolutely, I used to work a couple of evenings on a zero hours contract, Dh salary almost covered the mortgage and bills (we weren’t entitled to UC) and so my earnings generally topped it up and gave us a small amount for kids birthday presents etc. obviously some months didn’t get as much work but other months got a bit of weekend work too. Just a bit tiring at times as didn’t get to bed till 2-3am on those nights but would try and get an hour kip when Dh got home and once got the funded hours at 3 could go back to bed for a couple hours if on morning went to nursery.

When my dc were small I stayed home for a few years, then got a job working evenings and weekends. Family life was shit.
We then altered our lives, dh worked nights, he would sleep from 7 until 1 and I would work from 09:30 until 18:00.
I'd sort the dc in the morning, dh would collect from school and do dinner.
We had more family time as a result which was the most important thing to us.

Why is all the onus on you to be finding flexible solutions?

[quote HappyMeal564]@Labelmaker just because you stop working when your children are young doesn't mean you instantly become incapable of getting a job/lose any qualifications or skills you have if your husband runs off. As a single parent you can claim child maintenance from the child's father and there are benefits that help those who are struggling. I'd hate to live life thinking, oh must live like this and make it harder on us just in case my husband bails. I'd just deal with that at the time.[/quote]
but its sooo much harder to get back in to the workforce, or continue a career if you take time out

No its not great, yes it is sexist, but i wouldnt stop working just because it wasn't making a difference to the household income as long term the pain will be worth it

If you were working you’d be paying NI towards your ‘old age’ pension though, and would you be paying towards a private pension too ?

My great uncle hasn't worked a day in his life and his state pension is the same as my Dad's who still isn't retired at 70.