AIBU- Can't afford to work

[MissRja]

Just trying to work out a return to work after having a baby In December ( also have a 4 year old in full time school ) unfortunately, my original plans for childcare have fell through, which now means we are looking at paid childcare. My current job have declined My flexible working request , which means I am looking for another job. Due to school pick up/ drops offs I am looking returning on reduced hours over 5 days or term time only. Have worked our I will be bringing home roughly £1200 after tax per month. Nursery fees will be £1100 for a four week month, or £1375 for a 5 week month. This does not include before / after school club fees. If I was to use my wages alone to pay childcare fees I would actually be losing money to work , especially when factoring in petrol , work clothes etc. Surely this can't be right. How in this day and age can I not afford to go to work !! Its ridiculous. The whole reason I am going back is because we can't afford to live off DP wages alone , but it doesn't seem like it will make a difference if i do go back to work. Am i missing something here ? What does everyone else do to work around this ? Would love to hear your experiences / advice !!

1. Check if you can get UC to contribute to childcare costs

2. Check if you can use tax free childcare to contribute to childcare costs (usually you can either use UC or tax free childcare unless you or your dh earn over £100k)

3. Are you and DH splitting the childcare drop offs? If not, why not? That would make it easier for you to either stay in current role, or get another role with FT hours or not have to be restricted to term time only

4. How long will it be until you get 15/30 funded hours? Is it worth sucking up additional childcare costs until then?

Even if it only means breaking even, it would still be better in the long run to have those extra years in work and on your CV.

When my dd had baby 2 her nursery bill was £1800 per month. She went back to work after 6 months maternity. Her DH took some paternity leave. She took the short term hit to keep her job, got a promotion, kept paying into her pension and her DH did some drop offs or collections from child minder for school aged son. It was tough and she told me Ashe was very tired as baby not sleeping either but as the alternative was taking a couple of years out of work and her career going down the tubes. She worked and only got less than £60 per month to show for it but got promotion she would have missed had she stayed home. That promotion was worth £4500 per year and now she is we yeing as further pro mm option. Her employers respect her and know sh we is dependable. She is in also proud she was able to support her children.

@lampygirl

I don't get why people are picking on the OP about 'who' pays the childcare.

If option 1 is DP working on £1200 and option 2 is both working on £2400 but childcare is £1300 then they are worse off as a couple. It is comparing the income extra incoming and outgoing vs the stable status quo, it's not expecting that the woman has 0 money to spend while the bloke is lording it up. It's very easy to see a net decrease in income if you compare just the extra in vs the extra out.

See comments in my post above. The fact that women think in the way of current family income + my potential earrings- child care costs = can I afford to work, is a risky strategy.
The question is can either of them afford for her not to work given the long term gains of them both having stable careers. It has always (well certainly 30 years plus) been a close run thing whether normal households are better off to have a stay at home parent. Back then maternity leave was only 6 months, with minimal pay, and there were no free child care places for any hours provided by government, nor family tax credits (although married man allowance had been removed by then). So it has always been a struggle for most families. But working is about so much more than the salary coming in for any given month. So much more And why should it be the mother as the default position to give up work and pay the price of having a family in the long Term which is what this thinking is doing. .

@Kingharoldshairstyle absolutely what you said. Women need to start looking at the bigger picture and judging on that rather than the joint income headline.

@NameChChChChanges1

Your calculation is wrong (unless you're a single parent). 50% of childcare costs should come from your salary & 50% from your partner's

I hate when people say this. It makes fuck all difference to the actual finances of the situation. They are still equally in the shit no matter who pays the bill.

as OP says they can only just survie if that on her DP's wages
lets assume he brings home £2500 a month and expenses are £2400 (£100 left)
if OP earns £1200 a month income goes up to 3700 but expenses increase to 3500 ( £200 left) so income has increased by £100 a month after expenses out of which work clothes and transport to work will need to be deducted it doesn't matter how you split expenses in the household the overall effect is virtually no net gain so OP is right working actually contributes virtually nothing to household
there are other questions is her DP on fixed hours not all jobs are flexible with start / finish times many are fixed shifts or hours so it might well be impossible for him to do drop off or pick up
certainly to increase income working a couple of evenings or one weekend day could ease financial pressure much better but these do not tend to be career type jobs
it depends on OP's career whether career progression is a thing or not taking time out matters much more if you work in NHS for examle than if you work in retail

It's tough. Do make sure you're looking at all the help you can get eg tax free childcare.

Is there any chance of you or your husband compressing hours? During the nursery years DH and I both worked a 4.5 day week (5 days compressed to 4.5) with our half days on the same day so it saved us a day of nursery fees. Obviously even better if you can do 5 days compressed into 4.

You can utilise tax free childcare to save 20%
Also ask nursery to pay monthly this will help with budgeting.
I was paying £180 per week at first but 5 week months were hard so we do 51x180 /12. Much easier to manage

Does anyone actually read what the OP has posted? It is not a question about her paying the childcare by herself vs 50% from each partner etc.

She states "The whole reason I am going back is because we can't afford to live off DP wages alone".

Therefore she has to go back to work to earn some money as currently the household is not making ends meet.

But, as she states "If I was to use my wages alone to pay childcare fees I would actually be losing money to work , especially when factoring in petrol , work clothes etc".

The total household income will not cover current bills, plus the increase in childcare costs, no matter if one person pays 100% or if both of them pay 50%.

OP, look into practical suggestions from others who have actually read your post. Tax free childcare, childminders are normally cheaper than nurseries, especially if they can take your older one after school as well, can you (or your OH) do your 37 hours over 4 longer days?

Even if you are only just breaking even until the 30 hours free childcare kicks in when your baby turns 3, it is worth it for the career continuation, pension, NI etc etc.

Yabu

Because: why is childcare your expense only, and not a joint expense between you and DP?

Because: it’s just a few years, but long term you’ll never much better off

It hurts financially, now, but it’s temporary

I quit work, because “it made sense”, it was pretty hard (impossible) to get back to work 5 yrs later, as by then my childcare and housewife duties were so entrenched in our relationship it was hard to change things…

Both options are tough, imo. Choose your tough

Reduced hours and term time is a really big ask. Your older child will be able to go to holiday clubs during holidays. I would see if I could get 3 full days work and price wrap around childcare for older and 3 full days nursery. Paying 5 full days nursery to get the school hours is really inefficient.

You may find a childminder who is cheaper than nursery and will take both children. I would look at that.

We 'broke even' for three years after childcare fees when the DC were very young. Fees came out the joint pot we paid proportionally into according to earnings. They're now 19 and 17 and I'm so so glad I returned to work from very early on. My mental health was preserved, as were my career skills and the power balance in our marriage and my pension looks great.
Think long term.

If you be a SAHM get married

I'm in the process of deciding whether its worth returning to work after dc3 and find myself in a similar circumstance.

My job is not a "career" and there is no real progression opportunity and although we would have been only around £100-200 better off per month for me going back (including claiming some costs back), I think I have decided not to. At least for now.

Our reasons were two-fold. Dh has retrained and now has a job which is equal to both our salaries together previously so we can still have the same lifestyle but no childcare issues.

Also, My children are still little and all in school/nursery/baby so the likelihood of needing time off at short notice for a sick kid etc is high and my work were never very understanding. There is also then the issue of childcare for 3 in school holidays & we have no family at all to help us. MIL is very ill and I dont have any parents.

So for us, for now, it's best if i am here for the kids full time while dh works and progresses in his new career. When the youngest goes to nursery I will find a job within school hours or possibly return to college and do something new.

No one can really advise on your situation as it's personal to you, and only you know what support you have, and what your outgoings etc are, what are your chances of progression, could any of your jobs at risk in the coming years, do you have anything else to fall back on? Would you claim benefits, do you have any hobbies you can make money from? Can family and friends help with childcare during holidays? What are work policies for short notice absences ? Can you work it out if you alternate drop off/pick ups? Can you go part time or consolidate days to still work the same hours but pay less childcare days? What can you claim back from the government? All things to consider and weigh up?
Hope you figure it out. I think that navigating returning to work is a tricky one due to childcare costing so much.

the posters saying its 50/50 for childcare - thats fine to say - but the poster just said that they cant afford to live off husbands pay only - so assuming she was just using her paying fully for childcare for context!! it doesn't matter who pays for it - they cant afford it

I think a job working less days rather than shorter days 5 days a week makes more sense

less days at nursery is alwyas helpful moneywise

I work 3 days now and still manage to take home some money each month - if i worked 4 days id be tipped over the edge and we would be paying out more than i earn for childcare!!

its about finding a balance

I work one day a week 9-6 which helps pay for the bills whilst DH wages fund everything else. I don’t need to pay for childcare as family take care of DD the one Wednesday a week. I also don’t get taxed on the wages I earn so I actually take home just as much as I would if worked 2 days! I didn’t want to give up my job as I’d have to go through the whole registration scheme with my regulating body! It also lets me keep my knowledge and skills up to date!

So you always have that option if of course you have help for the one day you work :)

This is a joint cost. Keep working for your career, sense of self, economic protection. It’s vital you do this. It will be hard for a few years but ultimately you are in a much better position if you keep working

Can you do evening shifts OP? Maybe work 6-12 or something like that? It would probably need to be less shifts as well as your DH will be childcare so you wont have any outgoings for that and pure income, plus your not tied to term time earnings only.

Have you tried having a meeting with your current bosses and explaining that without flexible hours you won’t be able to continue? There is a chance of coming to some compromise.

Others have made important points about private pensions and the possibility of wage rises if you are able to get a job with clear opportunities for progression.

In terms of NI, as long as you filled out the forms for child benefit you will be making contributions towards the state pension regardless.

I never saw childcare as my sole cost and saw it as split between me and my husband, if you take the same view you will be 600 odd pounds a month better off by working. I really don’t see why you compare it to just your wages and not solely to his or joint. I’m guessing he’s not doing the same mental arithmetic on his salary?

It's completely immaterial if they share their household money and costs. Putting the same amount of money into different envelopes doesn't actually make it total any more.

working is about so much more than the salary coming in for any given month. So much more

That's true above a certain level, but the low-paid don't have any option but to look at the monthly salary coming in as against the outgoings.

It's the same kind of thinking as asking why on earth anybody would rent when they could get on the housing ladder and reap the multiple benefits of home ownership in the years to come - lovely if it's an option for you, but if it isn't, you have to prioritise the definite-now over the would-be-nice-future.

Only if you look at short term and totally forget about things like pensions, financial independence, career progression, ability to get a job later when child care costs decline etc

Is excellent if you are in a place whereby you can suck it up for a few years, in my household we could live on less than one of our current salaries even though it would be harder work than on our 2 salaries, but many other people I appreciate live pay packet to pay packet and so thinking long term is only well and good if they can keep their head above water at the minimum.

Yes, I'd def look at 2 or 3 long days, rather than 5 short ones. Tends to be more cost effective with nursery.

The points about the cost being shared are good ones. I know it seems not worth it for the first couple of years, but long term it really is. Pay rises help, having two salaries in case one of you loses your job/gets ill, having a backup if your partner fucks off and leaves you. I wouldn't give up a career lightly.

Also check your calculations with nursery. Ours are a flat fee per month, regardless of number of days in the actual month. There's no fluctuation between say February when its a short month and May when it's a long one.

OP - if you do decide not to go back to work and you have a private pension, I’d encourage your DP to pay into it while you’re off.