LGB vs LGBTQI etc

[Whoistheexpert]

Why was the T (and others) ever added to the LGB acronym?

The T (trans) is surely related to gender and not ones sexual orientation?

Am I missing something 😵‍💫

@Ijustreallywantacat

They are problematic in lesbian spaces and have been for a very long time. But they used to be small in number.

Never been a problem in my lesbian spaces. The women who try to tell lesbians how they should behave have been, but not transwomen. We've never had a problem talking about vaginas or periods or any of the stuff that's supposed to be a problem either.

You're not a lesbian if you have sex with transwomen. The word lesbian means exclusively same sex attracted. So you and your mates can include them in your dating pool if you choose but please don't call yourself lesbians.

Pretty sure transsexual MtF having been taking photos of themselves wanking in wonen's toilets for ever. Nor have they been in women's sports. Or winning "woman of the year" awards.
So, no, they haven't been doing this forever.

I have never actually been somewhere and thought "phew, there's only women here", it doesn't cross my mind

But I bet you have a moment of 'uh oh, what's the situation here?'' if there is a man there.

(I didn't realise I did this until recently, it is such an automatic response)

Obviously, if it is a transwoman then your Handmaid brain will shut down that automatic reaction and you will obviously be perfectly safe and have a nice chat about lipstick. Because no man would pretend to be a transwoman just to be able to take advantage of a woman, would they?

Haven't not having

I feel a mixture of sadness and anger that so many of my fellow lesbian and bisexual woman can't see the harm in the Stonewall-led shift from same-sex attraction to same-gender. I'm sorry, but you've been well and truly hoodwinked by what is essentially a men's rights movement. Wake the fuck up.

@Ijustreallywantacat

They are problematic in lesbian spaces and have been for a very long time. But they used to be small in number.

Never been a problem in my lesbian spaces. The women who try to tell lesbians how they should behave have been, but not transwomen. We've never had a problem talking about vaginas or periods or any of the stuff that's supposed to be a problem either.

Different people, different experiences. Many lesbians don’t want to be hit on by males in lesbian bars.

But I bet you have a moment of 'uh oh, what's the situation here?'' if there is a man there.

No, never. Pretty off that you think we talk about lipstick all day. Hiking, tattoos, weightlifting, sex, dinner, periods, tits, work, boxing, the women's FA cup... all topics of convo recently. Not lipstick so far but I'll keep you posted.

And I'm sure they do, but harassment and assault have always been unacceptable and will be shut down. We judge behaviour as we see it, and so far we haven't had a problem.

It all just reminds me of being assaulted and harassed at school for being gay and getting changed for PE. They'd complain to the teacher that I was staring at them, and I made them feel uncomfortable, before putting my uniform in the toilet or beating me up after school. I was eventually made to change in the toilets. Glad they no longer had to deal with me as a threat...

@TheGrinchsDog

Oh sorry, my mistake!

'Hijacked' wasn't in the OP, it must have been one of the comments further down the page and it stuck because I feel it was hijacked.

Sorry @Ijustreallywantacat

OP here - I did use that term in my follow up post, so you remembered correctly ☺️

@Ijustreallywantacat

Fine for you to not mind sharing a bathroom with males but it is not your place to suggest that all other women should be fine with this, too.

People have been sharing bathrooms with transwomen at least since forever. Part of the transition requirements even for old fashioned transsexual people was to live as the opposite sex for 2 years. That INCLUDES using the bathroom. Transwomen have always used womens bathrooms, as they should, and they always will. It has been bought up as an issue more recently because of the frothing about TW but it has always been the case. And as I said, you would not always know.

But what do you mean by 'transwomen' here? Because it now means 'any man who declares that he is a woman'. Do you believe there should be any gatekeeping to what constitutes a transwoman, or should it just be a free for all?

And yes, you are right, up until recently, women were generally 'ok' with a tiny number of genuinely dysphoric transsexuals, most of whom had had full SRS, using their facilities. But that was a courtesy, a privilege, because they are women's spaces. Those days are gone now, and I actually feel quite sorry for those people whose lives under the radar have been hijacked by a load of blokes who want to encroach on everything that women have. Now women are saying #nothankyou.

"No, never". Never been in a situation with someone with a penis (known or unknown) and worried about your safety? Not sure I believe that.

@Ijustreallywantacat

Fine for you to not mind sharing a bathroom with males but it is not your place to suggest that all other women should be fine with this, too.

People have been sharing bathrooms with transwomen at least since forever. Part of the transition requirements even for old fashioned transsexual people was to live as the opposite sex for 2 years. That INCLUDES using the bathroom. Transwomen have always used womens bathrooms, as they should, and they always will. It has been bought up as an issue more recently because of the frothing about TW but it has always been the case. And as I said, you would not always know.

Part of the requirement was also extensive therapy to establish their mental state and address issues like women feeling threatened by their presence.

So not the same as now at all.

"No, never". Never been in a situation with someone with a penis (known or unknown) and worried about your safety? Not sure I believe that.

In the context of the discussion I thought you meant transwomen. Whom I have never felt threatened by or uncomfortable around. Not when using the bathroom, not when changing in a locker room, not when sharing a twin room in a hotel.

Have I felt threatened by men with penises? Yes. We've all been there. I've also felt threatened by straight women with vaginas (I assume) when getting changed, as I stated above.

@Ijustreallywantacat

But I bet you have a moment of 'uh oh, what's the situation here?'' if there is a man there.

No, never. Pretty off that you think we talk about lipstick all day. Hiking, tattoos, weightlifting, sex, dinner, periods, tits, work, boxing, the women's FA cup... all topics of convo recently. Not lipstick so far but I'll keep you posted.

And I'm sure they do, but harassment and assault have always been unacceptable and will be shut down. We judge behaviour as we see it, and so far we haven't had a problem.

It all just reminds me of being assaulted and harassed at school for being gay and getting changed for PE. They'd complain to the teacher that I was staring at them, and I made them feel uncomfortable, before putting my uniform in the toilet or beating me up after school. I was eventually made to change in the toilets. Glad they no longer had to deal with me as a threat...

Your school handled it badly. The difference is, you were no threat to girls or women.

Males are a threat to girls and women.

There is nothing that distinguishes a transwoman from a man, to a woman.

@Ijustreallywantacat

"No, never". Never been in a situation with someone with a penis (known or unknown) and worried about your safety? Not sure I believe that.

In the context of the discussion I thought you meant transwomen. Whom I have never felt threatened by or uncomfortable around. Not when using the bathroom, not when changing in a locker room, not when sharing a twin room in a hotel.

Have I felt threatened by men with penises? Yes. We've all been there. I've also felt threatened by straight women with vaginas (I assume) when getting changed, as I stated above.

How can you tell the difference between a transwoman and any other person with a penis?

@Ijustreallywantacat

"No, never". Never been in a situation with someone with a penis (known or unknown) and worried about your safety? Not sure I believe that.

In the context of the discussion I thought you meant transwomen. Whom I have never felt threatened by or uncomfortable around. Not when using the bathroom, not when changing in a locker room, not when sharing a twin room in a hotel.

Have I felt threatened by men with penises? Yes. We've all been there. I've also felt threatened by straight women with vaginas (I assume) when getting changed, as I stated above.

But I have felt threatened by and uncomfortable around transwomen. Is my experience less valid than yours?

I totally changed my position on this when I discovered that the overwhelming majority of transwomen, even those with a GRC, keep their penis.

As for the outrageous suggestion below that violent women are as prevalent as violent men - seriously have a word with yourself

And yes, you are right, up until recently, women were generally 'ok' with a tiny number of genuinely dysphoric transsexuals, most of whom had had full SRS, using their facilities.

Untrue. Some feminist groups have historically opposed trans rights since at least the seventies. For example, Sandy Stone was a transwoman working at a lesbian record company. She and the natal women who defended her were threatened with guns and sent death threats. Pretending that transsexual women have always led a coy and quiet life, free from harassment, is niave and damaging.

But I have felt threatened by and uncomfortable around transwomen. Is my experience less valid than yours?

No. Of course your experience is valid. But why does your experience in particular mean that people should be excluded? Why not lesbians from women's spaces? The women who assaulted me felt threatened and uncomfortable around me. I had asked one of them out was the crime. Who KNOWS what I could have done next. Lesbians have definitely assaulted people before. There are lesbians in prison right now because they have been predatory. What I take from all of these valid and real experiences is that;
a.you should not harass people in spaces where people may feel vulnerable.
b. Feeling uncomfortable around a person does not automatically mean that that group should be excluded from the space.
c. Any predatory behaviour should be dealt with promptly and seriously.

@Ijustreallywantacat

"No, never". Never been in a situation with someone with a penis (known or unknown) and worried about your safety? Not sure I believe that.

In the context of the discussion I thought you meant transwomen. Whom I have never felt threatened by or uncomfortable around. Not when using the bathroom, not when changing in a locker room, not when sharing a twin room in a hotel.

Have I felt threatened by men with penises? Yes. We've all been there. I've also felt threatened by straight women with vaginas (I assume) when getting changed, as I stated above.

What is the difference between them? Nearly all still have a penis, a minority of those transwomen use their penis to harm others. How can you tell which ones are 'safe? How come you feel safe around transwomen but not around men? Do you have a cut off point for which transwomen you would feel safe around, ie. Do they have to be wearing a dress, a wig, have had breast implants, or is their declaration of womanhood simply enough for you to feel safe around them compared to men?

@SevenWaystoLeave

Because trans people have always historically been part of gay spaces and part of the gay liberation movement.

If that were true that T+ would always have been there not added a couple years ago 🙄

Why not lesbians from women's spaces? The women who assaulted me felt threatened and uncomfortable around me. I had asked one of them out was the crime. Who KNOWS what I could have done next. Lesbians have definitely assaulted people before. There are lesbians in prison right now because they have been predatory.

This again?

98% of sexual crime is carried out by males. That is a huge, huge percentage. Yes, there is a very small number of women who are dangerous, but as a class, males are much much higher risk than females. Which is why we have certain sex segregsted provision, it's based on that risk assessment. Transwomen are in that high risk class. At what point do they come out of it?

Ah I see I can cross predatory and violent lesbians off my bingo card too

Your school handled it badly. The difference is, you were no threat to girls or women.

How did the school know that? Lesbians are, purely statistically, a bigger threat to straight women than other straight women.
They genuinely and sincerely believed I was a threat to them. Their first action wasn't assault, it was complaining that I had asked one of them out despite not knowing if she liked girls (true!) and that I was staring at them getting changed. (Not true, though difficult to permanently affixed to the wall.)

TW want to changed, or go pee.

Men - however they identify - commit NINETY EIGHT PERCENT of sexual assaults. They are responsible for nearly all violent crime.

Talking about the tiny number of violent women is pure whataboutery. Odd behaviour for a lesbian.

TW want to changed, or go pee.

So they can do it in the men's can't they? If a crime does occur then they can report it to the police. That's women are told isn't it, when they say they don't want males in their spaces? (In fact I think it's been said on this very thread!)