LGB vs LGBTQI etc

[Whoistheexpert]

Why was the T (and others) ever added to the LGB acronym?

The T (trans) is surely related to gender and not ones sexual orientation?

Am I missing something 😵‍💫

[quote Annette32123]@Cheetocat

Why have you felt unsafe around men?

Do you think they are all attracted to you?

Do you think male violence towards women is about attraction rather than power?

How can I tell the difference between a man and a transwoman?

If you felt unsafe around men and I feel unsafe around men and I can discern no difference between men and transwomen, why is it unacceptable for me to feel unsafe around transwomen?

If the man you were scared of had told you he was a transwoman would your fear have disappeared?

If it did, would that have increased or decreased the likelihood of you being raped or murdered?

Lesbians won’t rape me even if they find me attractive and lesbians won’t rape me to exert their dominance over me. All men, including transwomen, are a potential threat to me on a way that no woman or transman is, lesbian or not.[/quote]
I'll answer this.

Because males commit 98% of sexually violent crime in the UK.

And no women has to share their trauma to justify keeping males out of our spaces.

Totally agree with you OP. And I’m really not sure what ‘rights’ trans folk think they are being denied. Baffles me.

@jeaux90

Bingo.

If anyone demands access to another person's body that is assault or rape, and would be dealt with as such in a criminal capacity

Like this was initially?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10625997/amp/Hospital-said-rape-single-sex-ward-not-possible-revealing-one-patient-trans.html

@bellinisurge

It's a sexual preference not a genital preference. Due to a person's sexual orientation. Not their "genital orientation "

Genital orientation? What is that? You choose it?

Dear god, it's madness

Back to the OP, the sort of people who dislike L,G,B and T people don't really distinguish between the categories. It's just "look at those f@~&s, let's beat them up!"
Some people want to get rid of the T as they're not sexuality based. But some people also don't want to include the B as that's different and not always as visible as the L and G. And they're quite different too. And then you can split the G up into "straight acting" and more camp groups. Smaller and smaller until their tiny groups aren't worth listening to.
I believe in being part of a big diverse group with a big voice. Rainbows rock.

@VivienneDelacroix

Also an lgbtq+ person here who is happy to have the T included, as are all my gay/lesvbian/bi friends. We understand what it is to be othered, to be attacked simply because of who we are, to be told we are a danger to children, to be called perverted, to be made to feel ashamed, to be closeted...we stand with our trans brothers and sisters.

I understand the OP's point about the logical flaw in lumping sexuality in with gender identity, but I also see that in your experience it isn't a problem in everyday life, and that T have experiences in common with LGB that give them common cause and empathy with each other.

Not being lesbian, I can't comment on the experiences lesbians may have with over-assertive transwomen, although I can see that it might be a possible issue.

However, the important thing for me is the issue women have with the whole self-ID business, i.e. the likelihood of predatory men who are not "real" trans, who just claim they are trans, getting access to potentially vulnerable women.

You think it would never happen? Then you are extremely naïve about the lengths that predators will go to, and the sense of entitlement that so many men have.

We women here on Mumsnet are generally not 'anti-trans'. We are anti-predator and pro-safeguarding. Can you see this?

@Mysterian

Back to the OP, the sort of people who dislike L,G,B and T people don't really distinguish between the categories. It's just "look at those f@~&s, let's beat them up!" Some people want to get rid of the T as they're not sexuality based. But some people also don't want to include the B as that's different and not always as visible as the L and G. And they're quite different too. And then you can split the G up into "straight acting" and more camp groups. Smaller and smaller until their tiny groups aren't worth listening to. I believe in being part of a big diverse group with a big voice. Rainbows rock.

Love this!

@StScholastica

My lesbian cousin was punched in the face by a trans woman because she rejected her advances. She's a lesbian, the trans woman had a penis. She needed surgery for a broken jaw. Transwoman was never found to be prosected and is still out there somewhere.

How did she know she had a penis? 🤔

@Superhanz How did she know she had a penis? 🤔

Statistically, it is far more likely they did than didnt, so why did you ask that question? Why do you think that was the stand-out piece of information there?

@MadameDragon

Yet another member of the LGB happy to include the T and bored of straight people having any opinion about it.

But straight women are directly impacted by the movement of males into single sex spaces (as are gay women), that's the issue.

Be as bored as you want, but I am entitled to single sex spaces for my safety, dignity and comfort. Therefore I have every right to an opinion.

T has only been part of the LGB community if the trans person was gay.

A lot of the gay clubs and bars going back to the 90s and earlier had a sprinking of both drag queens and straight male cross dressers, some of whom went on to become transsexuals. Very often it was those places that they would first come out and make new friends and allies.

How did she know she had a penis

Because most men do. Women don't have a penis.

[quote Christienne]If anyone demands access to another person's body that is assault or rape, and would be dealt with as such in a criminal capacity

Like this was initially?

[[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10625997/amp/Hospital-said-rape-single-sex-ward-not-possible-revealing-one-patient-trans.html]][/quote]
It will only take another 3 or 4 incidents like this and the trans movement is finished. Rape by a trans woman -they insist it never happens and it will appear as if it never happens if there is a transperson/sympathiser ready to lie loudly

enough and often enough that it never did happen
I hope the rape victim sues the hospital for a fortune because their priority was not the victim of a serious crime but the perpetrator. If hospitals can be sued, it will discourage them from listening to trans ideology. Has the liar who tried to pervert the course of justice , wasted police time. and nearly drove the victim to suicide actually been charged with all this? He/she should be in prison, not exercising his prejudices against women.

@housemaus

As a bi woman with a lot of lesbian friends - no, nobody I know feels sidelined. My friendship group and wider social circle is very supportive of trans people remaining included under the LGBT+ umbrella, including my oldest friend (who is a lesbian) working with young trans people in a local community support organisation (not 100% identifying info but if she's seeing this she'll know it's her and I know she has a stalk through MN occasionally... hello ).

I hear you.

Interestingly the only abuse my cousin and her wife are subjected to for not being transphobic comes from straight women. Straight women who are hell bent on attempting to control what gay women do or think.

Fine for you to not mind sharing a bathroom with males but it is not your place to suggest that all other women should be fine with this, too.

People have been sharing bathrooms with transwomen at least since forever. Part of the transition requirements even for old fashioned transsexual people was to live as the opposite sex for 2 years. That INCLUDES using the bathroom. Transwomen have always used womens bathrooms, as they should, and they always will. It has been bought up as an issue more recently because of the frothing about TW but it has always been the case. And as I said, you would not always know.

Yup feel hijacked here too.

A lot of the gay clubs and bars going back to the 90s and earlier had a sprinking of both drag queens and straight male cross dressers, some of whom went on to become transsexuals. Very often it was those places that they would first come out and make new friends and allies.

Thank you for this! I never thought about it this way.

Hijacked by what, @TheGrinchsDog? Explain what you mean.

@Superhanz
The punching gave him away. Transwomen generally don’t chop their cocks off, particularly the ones who want to fuck lesbians.

@Beancounter1
They are problematic in lesbian spaces and have been for a very long time. But they used to be small in number.

@HoveringDonkeyofKnock

T has only been part of the LGB community if the trans person was gay.

A lot of the gay clubs and bars going back to the 90s and earlier had a sprinking of both drag queens and straight male cross dressers, some of whom went on to become transsexuals. Very often it was those places that they would first come out and make new friends and allies.

And back when lesbian bars existed a small number of straight males would turn up - usually wearing pink - claiming to be lesbians and trying to guilt women into dating them or going on girly shopping trips with them. They didn’t behave like lesbians. They didn’t behave like women. Many lesbians would immediately leave the venue when they arrived because they were clearly males invading women’s spaces.

@Ijustreallywantacat

Hijacked by what, *@TheGrinchsDog*? Explain what you mean.

I was answering the OP, I assumed that was clear even though the thread has moved on.

Yes I feel the LGB has been hijacked.

Other, far more articulate posters have already explained why I feel that way so I don't think I need to 'explain' anything, that came across pretty rudely btw.

Oh sorry, my mistake!

'Hijacked' wasn't in the OP, it must have been one of the comments further down the page and it stuck because I feel it was hijacked.

Sorry @Ijustreallywantacat

They are problematic in lesbian spaces and have been for a very long time. But they used to be small in number.

Never been a problem in my lesbian spaces. The women who try to tell lesbians how they should behave have been, but not transwomen. We've never had a problem talking about vaginas or periods or any of the stuff that's supposed to be a problem either.

It's alright Grinchy, I feel bad for being so defensive! Sorry!