LGB vs LGBTQI etc

[Whoistheexpert]

Why was the T (and others) ever added to the LGB acronym?

The T (trans) is surely related to gender and not ones sexual orientation?

Am I missing something 😵‍💫

Why not lesbians from women's spaces?

Because lesbians are women, and women's spaces aren't "straight woman spaces". Lesbians have exactly the same right to use women's spaces as any other woman. I'm very sorry for your experience but most people don't want mixed sex spaces. Male people are the opposite sex, they do not have the right to use women's spaces.

The idea that lesbian rights to access women's spaces is somehow conditional because they're less justified to be there than other women is homophobic.

Please explain how I can tell that an unknown transwomen (and, yes, they rarely "pass") is actually a transwomen who just wants to pee and not a sexual predator.

Even more importantly, how can my teenage daughter, who is bombarded with messages that transwomen are women and therefore should be afforded the same assumption that they are safe to be around when vulnerable.

Mixed sex spaces are more risky for women as well as violating our privacy and dignity. Because your personal experience of assault aside, males statistically commit 98-99% of sex crime. It's male pattern violence.

The idea that lesbian rights to access women's spaces is somehow conditional because they're less justified to be there than other women is homophobic.

Yes it's incredibly homophobic to say that lesbians being allowed in female spaces should be as conditional as males being allowed in. Lesbians are women, they arenjust as much women as any other woman.

@Ijustreallywantacat

And yes, you are right, up until recently, women were generally 'ok' with a tiny number of genuinely dysphoric transsexuals, most of whom had had full SRS, using their facilities.

Untrue. Some feminist groups have historically opposed trans rights since at least the seventies. For example, Sandy Stone was a transwoman working at a lesbian record company. She and the natal women who defended her were threatened with guns and sent death threats. Pretending that transsexual women have always led a coy and quiet life, free from harassment, is niave and damaging.

But I have felt threatened by and uncomfortable around transwomen. Is my experience less valid than yours?

No. Of course your experience is valid. But why does your experience in particular mean that people should be excluded? Why not lesbians from women's spaces? The women who assaulted me felt threatened and uncomfortable around me. I had asked one of them out was the crime. Who KNOWS what I could have done next. Lesbians have definitely assaulted people before. There are lesbians in prison right now because they have been predatory. What I take from all of these valid and real experiences is that;
a.you should not harass people in spaces where people may feel vulnerable.
b. Feeling uncomfortable around a person does not automatically mean that that group should be excluded from the space.
c. Any predatory behaviour should be dealt with promptly and seriously.

Because women only spaces are about male violence not sexuality.

Women are far less likely to be violent.

It’s why lesbians are not an issue - because they are women - and we don’t let gay men in - because they are men.

Transwomen are just as likely to be violent as any other men.

Lesbians are just as likely not to be violent as any other women.

That’s it.

No transwomen should be in any women only spaces.

Talking about the tiny number of violent women is pure whataboutery. Odd behaviour for a lesbian.

My point is that if TW are excluded from spaces then I ought to be too. Is this about statistical threats? Most sexual assault carried out by women to other women is done by lesbians. Out they go.
Is it about feeling uncomfortable? Because plenty of women felt uncomfortable around me.

Statistics don't really do anything for me. You can find a reason to exclude and be afraid of almost any group of people using clever statistics. 99% of transwomen do not want to do anything but get on with their lives and do not wish to harrass or assault women. These people are not statistics, they are my friends and I will defend them.

Transwomen just going about their business in public spaces? Fine, no problem. You do you, hun and all that. When I'm in a vulnerable situation like a loo or a hospital ward? When I'm doing competitive sport? When I'm struggling to overturn male dominance in my chosen field of work? No. Keep out of my spaces.

It’s why lesbians are not an issue - because they are women - and we don’t let gay men in - because they are men.

Transwomen are just as likely to be violent as any other men.

Lesbians are just as likely not to be violent as any other women.

That’s it.

Exactly.

@Ijustreallywantacat

Your school handled it badly. The difference is, you were no threat to girls or women.

How did the school know that? Lesbians are, purely statistically, a bigger threat to straight women than other straight women.
They genuinely and sincerely believed I was a threat to them. Their first action wasn't assault, it was complaining that I had asked one of them out despite not knowing if she liked girls (true!) and that I was staring at them getting changed. (Not true, though difficult to permanently affixed to the wall.)

TW want to changed, or go pee.

A threat in what sense?

Teenage girls can be a nasty bunch. If it wasn’t you, they would have been saying the same about a female PE teacher. Every school has this nonsense and every school should handle it better than yours did.

That isn’t a reason to let men into women’s spaces.

"Most sexual assault carried out by women to other women is done by lesbians." Most sexual assault on women is carried out by men.
Is there an outside possibility that a woman will assault me? Yes. But that is utterly unusual. And for you to suggest that lesbians uniquely follow male patterns of offending is disgusting.

@Ijustreallywantacat

Talking about the tiny number of violent women is pure whataboutery. Odd behaviour for a lesbian.

My point is that if TW are excluded from spaces then I ought to be too. Is this about statistical threats? Most sexual assault carried out by women to other women is done by lesbians. Out they go.
Is it about feeling uncomfortable? Because plenty of women felt uncomfortable around me.

Statistics don't really do anything for me. You can find a reason to exclude and be afraid of almost any group of people using clever statistics. 99% of transwomen do not want to do anything but get on with their lives and do not wish to harrass or assault women. These people are not statistics, they are my friends and I will defend them.

Lesbians are not statistically as violent as men. That is twaddle.

My point is that if TW are excluded from spaces then I ought to be too.

Its not a good point, it's a poor gotcha. There is literally no basis for this, because spaces for women are spaces for women. Lesbians, straights, bi women. Not male people. They are there for all women's privacy, dignity and safety. You think your friends' feelings are more important and dismiss accurate statistics on male violence. That's up to you. I don't.

@bellinisurge

"Most sexual assault carried out by women to other women is done by lesbians." Most sexual assault on women is carried out by men. Is there an outside possibility that a woman will assault me? Yes. But that is utterly unusual. And for you to suggest that lesbians uniquely follow male patterns of offending is disgusting.

It’s internalised homophobia.

Which is sad.

Statistics don't really do anything for me. You can find a reason to exclude and be afraid of almost any group of people using clever statistics.

You don't need 'clever statistics' - 98% is not 'clever statistics'!

At what objective point of transition do transwomen come out of the high category of 'male'?

It really is, isn't it

'Statistics don't do anything for me' is possibly one of the most idiotic things anyone has said since Layla Moran talked about being able to see people's souls.

The self-hate is so sad

It's up there with believing men have no advantage over women in a swimming race and a male going from 462 to 1 just by changing "gender" is just down to some extra diligent training.

Lots of us (lesbians especially) don't like it and think the T is a cuckoo and a total embarrassment.

My point is that if TW are excluded from spaces then I ought to be too.

That makes absolutely no sense. You are a woman, with a woman's body.

There are certain situations where women need spaces free of male bodies which a trans woman (no matter what surgery or hormones are taken) will always have.

Lesbians are not a threat to women. Which is one of the reasons why transwomen like to call themselves lesbians. So they can pretend they are "safe". Do you know who else tries to con women into thinking they are safe? Sexual predators.

I'm old enough to remember when the B got added. Before that it was just L&G.

And yes, lots of gay people now have a problem with the alphabet soup, which is why a seperate group has been set up to advocate for LGB people.

Urgh, not liking the lesbophobia on this thread. Thank you for the decent, rational majority for exposing it for what it is.

@Simonjt

No, we don't feel 'hijacked', thanks for asking - most LGB people recognise that trans acceptance and equality is to our benefit and that modern transphobia is basically recycled homophobia, exactly the same arguments now being made against trans people that were made against gay people a few years ago. Most LGB people are absolutely happy to include the T.

This. I’m also beyond sick of the new trend of straight people silencing us to achieve their own transphobic agenda.

Definitely this!