Will Labour ever get back in?

[Blueblossompinksky]

My understanding is that the labour majority was in part because of the Scottish vote, which seems to have gone to the SNP.

I realise it’s unlikely that the Tories will get back in with such a large majority as 2019 but will there actually be enough seats for Labour to win?

The issue isn't whether we need KS or BJ to tell us what a woman is, it's what laws they'd pass if they refuse to define what a woman is.

Also, putting all the blame for inflation at the feet of the Tories is a mite unfair.

I have NFI who I'll be voting for next time.

My thoughts entirely @AllOfUsAreDead. It’s the question of the least worst right now. I’ve seen enough of this iteration of the Tory party to say enough is enough.

Me too.

Johnson cocks up and the next day yet another labour bashing thread with hundreds of ex labour voters (yeah right ) promising to vote for the tories because Labour don't know what a woman is.
What about a thread criticising the actual government for the numerous cluster fucks they've caused which involve millions of women and children like austerity ? But no lets divert attention. Again..

According to Stonewall 1% of the UK population is transgender. Just over 50% are women. Put bluntly, Labour is chasing the wrong vote. Many people, both men and women, are concerned about the crazy blinkered attitude to women's issues displayed by Labour. Until it addresses these I won't be voting Labour in a General Election again (former activist).
It will be interesting to see how the SNP does in the council elections in May.

I also hope they don’t until they know what a woman is and can stop trying to reduce women’s rights.

And we have umpteen v compelling reasons not to vote Tory. It’s a bloody nightmare.

But recognising biological sex and women is a hard line for me. I won’t compromise that, even if Labour or Lib Dem would usually be better for us and the country.

Most Labour/Lib Dems have literally gone insane and the trouble is with that kind of warped thinking, you can’t trust their judgement on so much else. They could do so much harm to women’s rights and safety and the safety of children in a instant. You cannot measure anything gender/sex related - crime, wages, burden of care etc, if you cannot accurately and truthfully say who is a woman/female and a man/male.

I don’t want to vote for anyone who cannot have coherent and rational beliefs about something as fundamental as biology, and who has such poor insight into damaging gender stereotypes and sexism, and the psychological care of young people.

Not until they make a temporary electoral pact with the greens, SNP and lib dems (hopefully with the condition that we move to a better, multi-party and proportional voting system!)

No one in Scotland will vote Labour if they get in tow with the SNP

I want the NHS to survive for my children and grandchildren
On this question alone I will vote Labour.

@Blossomtoes

My thoughts entirely *@AllOfUsAreDead*. It’s the question of the least worst right now. I’ve seen enough of this iteration of the Tory party to say enough is enough.

It is unfortunately. At least Labour may not treat us like scum, and may not bleed us dry, ruin the future for kids growing up today or destroy the NHS.

But we are going to allow all of that to happen because Labour don't know what a woman is. Nor does Boris! Someone quoted earlier that he refused to say that only women have a cervix. So he is the exact same as Labour, and yet you'll all vote for him and the measures to make our lives worse?

Boris is actually worse really. He has gotten how many women pregnant and then ran off? He seems to see himself as simply a sperm donor. And we allow this behaviour to be applauded.

I'll not vote for them until they apologise unequivocally for throwing women under the bus.

But we are going to allow all of that to happen because Labour don't know what a woman is. Nor does Boris! Someone quoted earlier that he refused to say that only women have a cervix. So he is the exact same as Labour, and yet you'll all vote for him and the measures to make our lives worse?

Not voting Labour does not equal voting Conservative.
Unfortunately Labour is refusing to listen to women's very valid concerns and that's a line in the sand for me. I value the NHS but I also want DD to have safe spaces if she needs them and to be able to compete fairly in competitive sports if it turns out that's her thing. It's a shame Keir Starmer can't show the same committment to women's issues that he did to anti-semitism. He doesn't even seem to acknowledge or understand the concerns.

Boris is actually worse really. He has gotten how many women pregnant and then ran off? He seems to see himself as simply a sperm donor. And we allow this behaviour to be applauded.

No-one I know, of any political persuasion, applauds this behaviour. He has the public schoolboy's attitude that women are lesser beings and he himself seems to view them as disposable. That's deplorable. But it doesn't give Labour the right to ignore women's views.

I’m confused by previous Labour voter posters on this thread saying they won’t vote Labour.. or that they will vote Tory.. because ‘labour don’t know what a woman is.’

The exact same problem goes for the Tories, who have refused to reform the GRA at all. They have a massive Parliamentary majority and could have put through any woman-friendly policies they wished to. But no. They have instead held a constant trump card over UK women- if they wanted to, in future they can argue to bring in self ID etc. We don’t have any new protections from this Tory government. The advances we have come from case law that we women have crowdfunded, and millions of unpaid woman-hours of campaigning by women at grassroots level. (Thank you Maya Forstater, Keira Bell, Ann Sinnott and others) It’s really not the Tories ‘knowing what a woman is’.

There’s lots of reasons to be pissed off with Labour and it’s enraging that Starmer, who seems decent enough, isn’t cutting through when the lives of more and more working people are getting harder and harder.

But that specific gender-critical reason for not voting Labour is equally applicable to the Conservatives, Lib Dems, SNP, Greens, WEP. You name it. They all have sexist, regressive policies which endanger single sex spaces and services and opportunities for women.

That’s the whole problem- we don’t have any mainstream party to vote for who knows what a woman is.

“Labour doesn’t know what a woman is” has become the 2022 version of “I couldn’t vote for Corbyn”.

WHY are Labour siding with the activists? It doesn't make any sense. I don't understand it all. They know full well that it will cost them elections. The Tories will make it a big issue and they will be on the side that most people are on, and Labour will be on the other side, and there is no possible way that everyone in the Labour party does not know this. So why?

AllofUs I agree with what you’re saying and think it’s awful that someone with Boris Johnson’s lack of integrity is running the country- but that’s a huge insult to sperm donors, who have actually done something altruistic for other people.

I'm another one who will NEVER vote for a party that doesn't understand biological reality and what a women is.

I’m not sure what the AiBU question is here so I didn’t vote. But to answer the OP’s question, yes I think at some point Labour have to get back in. With a new leader, probably, though. Rachel Reeves?

I don't care who runs the country so long as its not the tories

@Slothtoes

I’m not sure what the AiBU question is here so I didn’t vote. But to answer the OP’s question, yes I think at some point Labour have to get back in. With a new leader, probably, though. Rachel Reeves?

They will get back in eventually but the point is how bad things will have to get before they get back in. Which as it stands is very bad. It'd be nice to have a Labour party that could get in on their own merits, not just because the incumbent party is so awful that people hold their nose and vote Labour to get them out.

Men already dictate how safe women can be. Always have, always will. I went on Reclaim the Night marches in the 80s, they were a complete waste of time.

WildPoinsettia

"Labour are in in Wales and our lives are better for it, compared to those in England. I hope they stay in Wales and if they get into Westminster, even better."

Isn't the NHS in Wales even more buggered than everywhere else in the UK though?

Absolutely buggered. Add to that we've lived under the tightest restrictions in the UK for the last two years. That wouldn't be so bad if it had kept us safer. Instead we have the highest covid death rate in the UK and the second highest in Europe.

If anyone wants to a very good reason not to vote Labour, take a look at Wales.

@raspberryjamchicken

Every thread about voting Labour is immediately taken over by posters who say they wouldn't vote for them on the basis of definition of a woman. I consider myself a feminist and am concerned about things like safe spaces for women but I would still vote Labour as I have other priorities when I vote.

I would be interested to know if there has been any actual polling on whether this issue would in fact lead to a reduction of numbers voting Labour. I never hear anyone say anything about it in real life and wonder if the number of people in demographics outside of MN who would actively choose to vote Labour because of their stance on trans rights would outweigh those who wouldn't? Presumably the Labour Party itself think so.

Lots of bots jump on these types of threads as soon as Labour is mentioned in the thread title - it goes over my head. It's very clear that while gender ID is an issue for some (it is for me too, I won't go into why on here though) it does not eliminate the endless list of failings of this Tory government. Nobody talks about it to the degree they do on MN in real life, and it certainly wouldn't be the only thing considered when voting for a political party. I would not see MN as representative of the rest of the population.

Expanding the definition of women to include men, and on the basis of their own declaration which is what Labour unacceptably want to do, destroys any hope of evidence based policy making

Want to tackle issues around woman’s pay or violence against women or the under representation of women in politics or womens poverty or improving woman’s health? How do you do that when you don’t know if you counting biological women or including men who feel like women? Whose testimony are you listening too - biological womens or men who feel like women? Are they not very different experiences?

And the evidence of the last years shows us that there is nothing women have that TW won’t try & get in on. Programmes to increase womens representation in politics & STEM , sport, the menopause & even still birth ffs

It’s not just that we will be forced to include TW in all women related things, it’s that they will be privileged over women because they already are. Witness how rules and guidelines everywhere are being torn up in the face of objections from women to appease them

Plus as said above. Men no matter how they present are not women & I will not vote for any party whose MPs are hell bent in paddling such patent fucking nonsense