Will Labour ever get back in?

[Blueblossompinksky]

My understanding is that the labour majority was in part because of the Scottish vote, which seems to have gone to the SNP.

I realise it’s unlikely that the Tories will get back in with such a large majority as 2019 but will there actually be enough seats for Labour to win?

@WouldBeGood

Russell Brand did a great podcast with an American academic about how the left has lost its way, and become totally alien to the erstwhile core voters.

I listened to this. Very accurate to what's happened with Labour.

@urbanbuddha

What evidence do you have that it is damaging in terms of their prospects of being elected? Are there surveys in existence that prove that is the case?

2019 General Election.

Different world. As a predictor for the next one it’s useless.

There will be no change in Labour until they elect a different type of leader

It shouldn't be just about the leader really, but I don't disgaree

Trouble is many party members, who'll often vote Labour no matter what, actively want the sort of leaders they've had recently - just look at how they kept backing Corbyn when even his fellow MPs lost confidence in him

Which is all very well, but it's not the long term party faithful they need to attract; it's the many floating/swing voters who they've either forgotten or simply don't care about, and so they go on losing

The most recent fool is Annaliese Dobbs, who was on this month @TooBigForMyBoots

After the interview, she released some shite saying that Labour will lift women up. I did scratch my head at this, as surely it is difficult to lift something up if you don't know what it is.

Luckily, the brave and pithy JK Rowling was on it for all of us and tweeted to Annaliese that she too was confused as Annaliese couldn't define a woman. She wondered if she was just going to pick up random stuff until she found one that rattled.

Please don't bunch for this bunch of dangerous loons.
If they win, or get a good showing, they will think that many women agree with their madness and you can bet your bottom dollar that they will roll that argument out in future interviews.

Tell every Labour worker that you can't vote for them because they think that saying it is too complex to define a woman is something to be proud of.

They are twats and so is any politician of any hue that tries to make this thinking part of the mainstream.

PM Johnson faffed, said something about "dignity for everyone" and refused to say that only women have a cervix. And he's the Prime Minister and leader of the Conservative Party! His bunch of dangerous loons are already in power.

I wont be voting Labour or Conservative, but I get pissed off with women being told the lie that a vote for the Conservative party will protect women in any way. It won't.

If that's the case, @TooBigForMyBoots and it wouldn't surprise me then let no woman vote for his party either.

I don't care if any party promises gold plated tax returns, nothing is more serious than this for us and our daughters.

Tell the fuckers why you won't be voting and let them take that back to party HQ.

There are plenty of women who describe themselves as trans allies without those of us who can see the danger ahead voting for any shit that can't define a woman and ALL that that implies.

Go to the ballot, recall those women who fought for our right to do so and spoil the bloody paper. A spoilt paper is not wasted. It sends a message of protest.

A spoilt paper is not wasted. It sends a message of protest

It depends where the paper is spoilt. I was happy spoiling mine in 2019 because I live in a constituency where they weigh the Tory votes. If I lived in a marginal I wouldn’t have done it because it might have let a Tory in. There are a lot of seats where the Tory MP has a very slender majority and every vote is crucial.

As I said earlier I’m so completely sick of this corrupt shitshow that I really can’t bear it any more. I’m a gender critical, second wave feminist and, despite that, this isn’t a hill I’m prepared to die on any more. I want Johnson’s government consigned to history. If I lived in a marginal I wouldn’t hesitate to vote Labour.

If they move closer to the 'centre' and marginalise the hard left, yes.

I told the local Labour candidate who knocked on my door on Thursday why I was happy to vote for him.

And I agree absolutely with @Blossomtoes that a spoilt vote means different things in different places.

He was asked the week after Keir Starmer @MoonUnderWater. www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1501654/Boris-Johnson-GB-News-latest-Conservative-Party-speech-woke-cancel-culture-woman-cervix-vn/amp

@WouldBeGood

Russell Brand did a great podcast with an American academic about how the left has lost its way, and become totally alien to the erstwhile core voters.

I find it a bit sad that Labour feels so different to landslide years (although would remove the war part)

Op I don’t know, but I’ve always thought the same re SNP being a big factor in losing ground.

Polling suggests Labour is ahead iirc but gap is narrowing. At an election in a few years, it’s hard to know

If the NHS didn't close ranks and gaslight rape victims (never mind their treatment of whistle-blowers in general), I'd be more sympathetic to calls to "save it" from some imagined destruction.

@Blossomtoes

“Labour doesn’t know what a woman is” has become the 2022 version of “I couldn’t vote for Corbyn”.

After the events in Ukraine unfolded, I realised just how lucky we are that the Putin-sympathising unilateralist didn't get in. You remember, the one who was suggesting that we check with the Russians to see if it really was novichok that they used in Salisbury.

Labour doesn’t know what a woman is” has become the 2022 version of “I couldn’t vote for Corbyn”

Absolutely.
Let's ignore everything wrong with this Tory Government and this Tory Prime Minister who is a proven misogynist and racist, and bang on instead about what constitutes a woman - no doubt a definition that will change yet again before the next General Election.

After the events in Ukraine unfolded, I realised just how lucky we are that the Putin-sympathising unilateralist didn't get in. You remember, the one who was suggesting that we check with the Russians to see if it really was novichok that they used in Salisbury

Yes, let's celebrate we got the Trump admiring Johnson. Trump being the man who considers Putin a Genius.

Labour need to give people reasons to vote for them apart from simply not being the Tories.

@Florenz

Labour need to give people reasons to vote for them apart from simply not being the Tories.

Yes

As there are other parties available

bang on instead about what constitutes a woman

I'll bang on about what I want thanks. You do you.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

There will be no change in Labour until they elect a different type of leader

It shouldn't be just about the leader really, but I don't disgaree

Trouble is many party members, who'll often vote Labour no matter what, actively want the sort of leaders they've had recently - just look at how they kept backing Corbyn when even his fellow MPs lost confidence in him

Which is all very well, but it's not the long term party faithful they need to attract; it's the many floating/swing voters who they've either forgotten or simply don't care about, and so they go on losing

Yes, they are in a sort of spiral. They have more and more of these kinds of leaders, and also MPs, party members, and core voters. And these party members keep electing people who look like themselves for leader. They think they are for the workers, the under-privileged, the vulnerable,but they jut don't seem to be able to understand why their views don't resonate with them. If Brexit didn't show how out of touch they were in that sense, nothing will I'm afraid - once there is talk of turkeys voting for Christmas you know is a type of condensation and patronage, not representation.

Looks like some people are getting bored of the others pointing out that Labour don’t know what a woman is. Oh well, it’s not like it’s an important thing, is it. Women’s rights, dignity and safety is so trivial that some can choose to be bored and move onto more trendy stuff.

Im Labour through and through but like many can’t vote Labour (green or Lib Dem) until they recognise what a woman is. I had high hopes for Keir but have completely written him off, in fact I’m utterly repulsed by him now. He represents the parties deep set rot. I find Boris equally as repulsive for covid party reasons, however a more honest and moral conservative leader will maintain conservative interest.

I am not sure Kier isn't worse. Boris is a populist with a pragmatic approach and no real strong sense of morals in much of his personal life. But Kier might be a True Believer, which seems less bad but can in fact be more dangerous. The other options seem to be Coward, or maybe Numptie, which are more on the same level as BJ.

TooBigForMyBoots

He was asked the week after Keir Starmer @MoonUnderWater. www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1501654/Boris-Johnson-GB-News-latest-Conservative-Party-speech-woke-cancel-culture-woman-cervix-vn/amp

^^

Boris rightly believes the current legislation protecting those with gender reassignment (a protected characteristic) is adequate, he’s not planning to widen legislation to include gender identity (which is not a protected characteristic).

This is, in my opinion, the current state of the Labour Party.

a vignette

Some working class men and women on social media: "multinational conglomerates are using their size and power to exploit these loopholes in employment law. Workers are being forced to work 18 hours a day without breaks. People lose money for going to the toilet in work time. We know of pregnant women who have resorted to wearing nappies at work because they're not able to go to the toilet".

Labour Party Activists:

Working class men and women [to each other]: we're getting traction! People from the Labour party have noticed. This is brilliant!

Working class men and women: hello, thank you for your support. It's very much appreciated! Can you come along to a meeting at the community centre at 9am, tomorrow? We want to draw up our first draft of what legislative measures we want to push for to stop this exploitation. If we partner with the Labour party, you'll be able to say whether it's workable on your end.

Labour Party Activist 1 [self-righteously]: no, because I am anti-work, and that is just not radical enough for me. You don't want to stop exploitation, you just want to reduce it a bit for people like you.

I have an Amazon parcel being delivered tomorrow prior commitments so I can't attend any meeting that is working towards less than the complete overthrow of capitalism.

Labour Party Activist 2, 3 and 4: Of course I will! So long as you expel her, her, her and him from your group for liking T*RF posts on facebook.

Working class men: um, okay...

Absolutely nothing productive happens, as the women and men expelled were the ones who had made the preliminary draft notes. It is agreed that a second meeting will be held.

The working class men remaining, plus 1 token woman, bring along some notes on legislative ideas. However, the Labour activists attending the meeting now outnumber the working class men, and they steer the meeting away from how legislation can be used to compel employers to improve working conditions, into a discussion of the necessity of UBI (universal basic income), and Star Trek economics.
Nothing is agreed about the proposals to improve working conditions, and get employees right here and now, the right to toilet breaks.

Labour need a leader who actually represents the working class ie someone from humble beginnings and can actually relate to the people Labour originally represented. I was born in the 90s and I haven’t liked any of the leaders in my lifetime. Starmer is spineless and doesn’t know what a woman is. I don’t like BJ and friends either. No idea who I will vote for.