Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

You need to go back and do basic Biology GCSE.

It's not transphobia - it's bloody science.

I agree with you completely.

@SucculentChalice

Cyw2018 Because expoilting young white people with DSD then parading them across international media when questions inevitably get asked, rather than diagnosing and appropriately managing their condition in confidenitatily would be seen as abuse. It definetly seems to be more of a black athlete issue.

The other side of the issue is of course the black women athletes from those countries who are being left out of teams and being denied opportunities because of the pushing/exploitation of athletes with DSD. Imagine being a woman athlete on the brink of international success, with amazing talent, and just needing that bit of help by way of better coaching, better facilities, training camps, etc but no-one being interested in helping you because of DSD athletes being promoted by those in charge of your national federation instead.

Absolutely. They should be treated with compassion, but not at the expense of women, and that is why no one with a Y chromosome should be competing in the womens category.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

Weight and height change several times daily; even "research" confirms this.

Perhaps we should do away with boxing's weight-based categories?

@DrivingHomeChristmas

Are there any stats on how many times Transpeople don’t win at races? Maybe she was the best because she was so motivated and worked hard? It must take a lot of determination to be a trans athlete and maybe that determination is in her sport preparation too.

That determination didn’t help when he was swimming with other males. As I recall he was decidedly average. I mean I’m sure he was a talented swimmer, but as far as elite goes? He wasn’t going to make it. Perhaps he tried plan B?

@CoastalWave
maybe look up intersex. There are not 2 sexes. Some people are born with 2 sets of genitals.

@Delectable i know height and weight changes. Didnt say it don't.

Some women have advantages over other women and some men have advantages over other men.
Banning trans athletes or ridiculing them is not on.

Most posters on mumsnet are transphobic and dont even understand what gender dysphoria is.

maybe look up intersex. There are not 2 sexes. Some people are born with 2 sets of genitals.

No. No they are not. This is offensively ignorant on the matter.

Banning trans athletes or ridiculing them is not on.

Not banned (unlike some athletes with DSDs actually) - simply asked to compete in the sex class that they are.

Gender dysphoria is utterly irrelevant.

There are not 2 sexes.

There are, I promise you. There is no third sex.

@ChiefAdjusterOfRubensShorts

I totally agree with you OP.

There should be a separate category for trans athletes.

I agree with this. I think separate categories for trans athletes would make things fair.

Nobody wants to ban anyone. Men can compete with men and women with women. What you shouldn’t be doing is competing in as a woman if you aren’t one.

Banning trans athletes or ridiculing them is not on.

They are free to compete. In their own sex class.

There are not 2 sexes.

🤦‍♂️ There are only two sexes.

[quote Boredoutmymind]@CoastalWave
maybe look up intersex. There are not 2 sexes. Some people are born with 2 sets of genitals.

@Delectable i know height and weight changes. Didnt say it don't.

Some women have advantages over other women and some men have advantages over other men.
Banning trans athletes or ridiculing them is not on.

Most posters on mumsnet are transphobic and dont even understand what gender dysphoria is.[/quote]
Thats why World Athletics sets testosterone limits on participation in womens' events. The amounts permitted are still something like 7 times higher than any woman has ever tested but have still ruled out all of the athletes named above.

I believe that swimming is going to be subject to similar rules next year, which is why Lia Thomas is being permitted to compete this year.

Today I visited a place where dogs are not allowed.
Kept said well mannered dog on lead, and had anyone questioned me, I’d have said she self ID’s as a cat.

[quote Boredoutmymind]@CoastalWave
maybe look up intersex. There are not 2 sexes. Some people are born with 2 sets of genitals.

@Delectable i know height and weight changes. Didnt say it don't.

Some women have advantages over other women and some men have advantages over other men.
Banning trans athletes or ridiculing them is not on.

Most posters on mumsnet are transphobic and dont even understand what gender dysphoria is.[/quote]
As has been explored throughout this thread, the occurrence of people with DSD (formerly known as Intersex) does not negate the binary nature of human sex.

This swimmer is not, in any case, a person with DSD.

Plenty of MNers are very well aware of what gender dysphoria is, they just don’t agree with you that gender dysphoria makes it ok for people with male bodies to compete against people with female bodies in sport.

I've just been stupid enough to get drawn into a discussion about this on Reddit and I've just been labelled a misogynist.

100% In agreement with you OP

@Borgonzola

I've just been stupid enough to get drawn into a discussion about this on Reddit and I've just been labelled a misogynist.

Don’t they mean transmisogynist which is a word I learned the other day.

(Yes, they are even stealing the words that describe how they hate us! )

maybe look up intersex. There are not 2 sexes. Some people are born with 2 sets of genitals.

There are only 2 sexes. There are two body types. One body type is formed around the production of small gametes, whether that body actually produces those small gametes or not.

Or it is a body formed around the production of large gametes whether that body actually produces those large gametes or not.

A body does not produce both gametes.

Gametes. Not genitals. A person may have ambiguous genitalia and internal testes, functioning or not. But they are male.

There is no ‘third’ gamete. Ever. There is no ‘third’ sex.

I completely agree with the prevailing opinion that LT and other transwomen who have been through puberty competing against women is unfair and disadvantages women. I'm also very sympathetic with GC ideas about women's spaces. For argument's sake, what about a transwoman who experienced gender dysphoria prior to puberty and was prescribed puberty blockers before taking female hormones? Would it be fair for her to compete against women? I do appreciate puberty blockers are a whole other thread and there are very strong opinions, but just interested to hear views. Sorry if this has already been covered - I've only made it to page 11!

@Borgonzola

I've just been stupid enough to get drawn into a discussion about this on Reddit and I've just been labelled a misogynist.

Very brave posting on Reddit.

Anything other than complete subservience to the gender ideology is a cardinal sin over there.

The feminism and witchesvspatriarchy subreddits are full of men saying they're women and asking if they are considered included, and it's an echo chamber of toxicity and cancel culture.

[quote Boredoutmymind]@CoastalWave
maybe look up intersex. There are not 2 sexes. Some people are born with 2 sets of genitals.

@Delectable i know height and weight changes. Didnt say it don't.

Some women have advantages over other women and some men have advantages over other men.
Banning trans athletes or ridiculing them is not on.

Most posters on mumsnet are transphobic and dont even understand what gender dysphoria is.[/quote]
What are the names of these other sexes?

@Boredoutmymind

"CoastalWave
maybe look up intersex. There are not 2 sexes. Some people are born with 2 sets of genitals.

"Delectable i know height and weight changes. Didnt say it don't.

Some women have advantages over other women and some men have advantages over other men.
Banning trans athletes or ridiculing them is not on."

A - intersex (usually referred to DSD) does not mean there are 2 sees, I suggest if you are so crass as to use other people's actual physical issues to support your ideology I suggest you actually take care to understand what you are talking about, you have no fucking business dragging these people in to this debate, you are fucking offensive, considering how much you expect women to tip toe around the feeling and ideology of the trans community- hypocritical at best.

B - even with the best physical advantages the best women will still have no chance against a mediocre man - whether he as cut off his genitals, downed a load of oestrogen or grown his hair and swapped his clothes.

It is sexist of trans women to suggest that they can embody womanhood by way of declaring his feelings and wearing a sex based stereotype.

And no, I am not transphobic, I would not discrimate against a trans person, however I do not believe that expecting a single sex space to be based on sex not identity/feelings is discrimination, I would however support a third space for trans people as that is fair and inclusive.

As far as I can tell under the rules a man undergoing treatment for prostate cancer (so has to reduce his testosterone levels) would be classified as a woman.