Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

@Clarabe1

The only way women can stop this is by refusing to compete against transgender athletes and staging walk outs. It’s not being transphobic is been real- a biological female cannot compete against a biological male.It’s just fact.

If they did that, the TRAs would ensure their lives would be a misery. Death threats, sponsorship pulls, job losses etc etc etc.

The "Most Marginalised Group" have immense power that sees people fired, threatened and ruined.

Eventing and dressage always come up.

Let's talk horse racing instead.

I take it you have all heard of the Kentucky Derby? Famous American horse race. 2km flat race for horses aged between 3 and 4 years old.

Colts (young male intact horse), geldings (young male castrated horse) and fillies (young female horse) may be entered. It is an open category, but fillies are expected to carry less weight than the colts and geldings to try and make it fair on the female horses. Fillies carry 55kg, the colts and geldings carry 57.2kg.

(Stallion: adult equine male; Mare: adult equine female)

The Kentucky Derby has been held every year since 1875. In all that time, how many fillies have won? Three.

Odd, isn't it.

But fear not. The Kentucky Derby has a sister race, called the Kentucky Oaks, also founded in 1875, which is filly-only. It is slightly shorter- 1.8km long.

I once asked in MN why these two races existed, if the sexes were completely and utterly physically equal. One woman, who I think was slightly confused about the difference between jockey and horse, suggested it was because American women preferred going to watch female horses over males.

I don't think that's why though.

It’s female erasure at its finest

Right up there with “chest feeding”, “pregnant persons” and “menstruators”.

I still can’t believe women are supporting this insanity.

@Bollocks989

Yanbu

Why are we standing for it?

I'm hoping this is the turning point where people stop standing for it. This thread doesn't appear to have manifested the usual bunch of handmaidens and so-called progressives scolding us for being unkind, bigots, etc.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

This says it all

boysvswomen.com/#/

The link compares high school boys with female Olympians. Have a look, it’s very interesting

[quote Glittertwins]@itsgettingweird : there are definitely rules on swimwear including transparency of the material so I would have thought bare chested poolside would be included? [/quote]
I would have thought so too.

I know the basic rules as ds is a swimmer. But I know mainly the male regulars because they are the ones we have to know.

And I do think the swim bodies need to say that if woman cannot remove swimsuits to the waist then neither can trans woman. There just cannot be difference when they choose and none when they don't.

Lia believes or identifies or whatever she thinks as a woman. Therefore she believes she is like a woman and shouldn't be exposing her breasts in public. Or she doesn't believe she has breasts that should be covered - therefore decides her physical appearance is male .

I find the utter inconsistencies even worse than male sex competitors being allow to race (and beat) female sex ones

Are there any stats on how many times Transpeople don’t win at races

No. And why do you think that even matters?

How many transitioned male competing in sports effect women and girls without winning?

Let's see.

It only takes one in each sport for a 'region', a 'school' or a 'country' to have a significant affect.

So, Maxine the Kent Cricketer played both male and female cricket at the same time (so I believe). Was less than stellar as a male cricketer, but in women's cricket Maxine used their male advantage to set 'female' records for the county. Because they were a male, who did not experience any negative sexist discrimination around playing cricket in their life, got lots of male oriented opportunities for training and playing. AND as a male with their physical advantages faced balls with bats that are lighter than male bats, from slower bowlers because women do not have the pace bowling, and took advantage of closer boundaries.

That male took 'women player of the year', set records that may never be broken by a female, and displaced a female from the team. And continued to be a mediocre male player on the other team.

Let's look at international level.

Laurel Hubbard. How many females did Hubbard disadvantage? A male in their 40s who already had a high level male weightlifting career. But now is also is on their 'second' career. With a millionaire dad on boards on their side smoothing the way for them. We know a NZ ex-champion female who competed against Hubbard left the sport. There was the woman who missed out on a spot in the team. But how many more were affected? How many just didn't ever think they could continue to compete with a middle aged male who had financial support and influence to just keep on going.

There are quite a few international competitors. And they may be just the single transitioned male in the area/country's sport.

There was a Canadian archer who competed. Recently transitioned and recently took up archery. Within a year or two was competing for Canada.

Rachel Mckinnan/Ivy - another middle aged male transitioner who happened to then become a world champion.

Watch out for E Bridges over the coming months. Still holds unbroken UK cycling records for junior males. And about to start competing in GB Cycling. How many women will now look at their inclusion in the team and figure there is just no way they even have a chance to beat a champion male cyclist? Which female who has been working all their life to train and overcome discrimination will then miss out?

And watching these athletes come through, how is this inspirational for young females. Who we absolutely know will give up sport in their teens at a far greater rate than males?

Now, let's look at the physical damage female competitors need to put themselves through to 'win' against these males. Medical reports are telling us that athletes are causing more and more harm to their bodies to gain fractions of performance gain. What harm does a female have to do to beat a male who has this performance when females are already harming their bodies to win?

This attitude of those women can just work harder, is so terribly fucked up.

Completely fucked up. Misogynistically so.

And that is not even covering off changing rooms, accommodations that might need to be shared, safeguarding.

So, no. It is actually a cognitive distortion that posters are indulging in here. It is a falsity.

Just ONE transitioned male can and does have enormous influence on each and every sport they are participating in where they compete as 'female'.

And the higher in division they climb, the greater that influence.

He’s a bloody charlatan. Does he feel good about himself taking the place of better women? And I will NEVER call him or anyone like him a woman. Let’s see how long this post stays up. I’m bloody angry.

Article dated 2016

Only 40 fillies have competed in the Kentucky Derby since its first running in 1875. The inaugural race featured two, Ascension, who finished 10th, and Gold Mine, who was 15th and last.

Why? Because the entry fees for the Derby are really expensive, so the (extremely male) world of horseracing does not bother telling fillies (young female horses) that they should Just Try Harder.

They set up separate female-only races so that humans have opportunities to enter female horses against each other, and more opportunities to bet on the outcome.

Sadly, this means there is more riding (sorry!) on creating fair racing conditions for female horses, than it is female humans.

Female humans are expected to suck it up. Male horse owners won't.

My daughter has learning disabilities. It has taken years of work and fighting the system for her to be able to acccess a level 3 course at college. She has to have a TA and various other support. She has come top in every exam in her year. Not because of the concessions she has but because she has worked so hard after fighting to be on the course. It’s not just about physique and biology- sportspeople will tell you it’s psychology far more than training.

That's great your dd has done so well. My ds has a neurological condition and autism so I understand the struggles.

But I can assure you no amount of psychology will prevent the spasticity and muscle wasting in his legs from giving him a physical disadvantage in competitive swimming.

That's why he races as a classified S9 swimmer.

@itsgettingweird : I have both. DH laughed when I said that maybe we should get DS to wear his sisters's race suit for the upcoming regionals. He'd blast it and he'd have qualified for British Champs if he claimed to be female...

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

Yes do please shut down the debate. Transmen can compete with men in their sports but are not beating them are they? You know that there are weight classes in many sports. This isn't fair.

@CounsellorTroi

I went on a transgender awareness seminar at work once. We were told that the cis prefix had come about because otherwise non trans people would be called “normal”. I don’t object to the term in academic discourse, but In hindsight elements of that seminar made me quite uncomfortable.

Congratulations, you’ve been Stonewalled!

Why do they try to change all our words, it’s so exhausting. They need to stop trying to make Fetch happen. Women and trans women works just fine.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

Men on average have stronger bones and bigger lungs. No amount of hormone therapy and surgery can change that.

@ThatsALotOfPassionfruit

Are there actually any instances of transmen competing in competitive male sports or is this another thing solely reserved for women to have to just suck up?

Like a PP I fear for the things my young DD will have to put up with in years to come to avoid being (allegedly) transphobic

I also find it very scary how the next generation of women are being coerced and brainwashed in to denying science under the guise of ‘being kind’. It’s actually sickening and I worry for them

Why do they try to change all our words

It is a deliberate strategy. You control the playing field (apologies) by controlling the words around it.

[quote Glittertwins]@itsgettingweird : I have both. DH laughed when I said that maybe we should get DS to wear his sisters's race suit for the upcoming regionals. He'd blast it and he'd have qualified for British Champs if he claimed to be female...[/quote]
I could try that with ds.

As a female swimmer rather than a male disability swimmer he'd have qualified for British champs

As a male - not so much (or even close 😂😂) Plus they don't have para swimming there.

@Helleofabore

Are there any stats on how many times Transpeople don’t win at races

No. And why do you think that even matters?

How many transitioned male competing in sports effect women and girls without winning?

Let's see.

It only takes one in each sport for a 'region', a 'school' or a 'country' to have a significant affect.

So, Maxine the Kent Cricketer played both male and female cricket at the same time (so I believe). Was less than stellar as a male cricketer, but in women's cricket Maxine used their male advantage to set 'female' records for the county. Because they were a male, who did not experience any negative sexist discrimination around playing cricket in their life, got lots of male oriented opportunities for training and playing. AND as a male with their physical advantages faced balls with bats that are lighter than male bats, from slower bowlers because women do not have the pace bowling, and took advantage of closer boundaries.

That male took 'women player of the year', set records that may never be broken by a female, and displaced a female from the team. And continued to be a mediocre male player on the other team.

Let's look at international level.

Laurel Hubbard. How many females did Hubbard disadvantage? A male in their 40s who already had a high level male weightlifting career. But now is also is on their 'second' career. With a millionaire dad on boards on their side smoothing the way for them. We know a NZ ex-champion female who competed against Hubbard left the sport. There was the woman who missed out on a spot in the team. But how many more were affected? How many just didn't ever think they could continue to compete with a middle aged male who had financial support and influence to just keep on going.

There are quite a few international competitors. And they may be just the single transitioned male in the area/country's sport.

There was a Canadian archer who competed. Recently transitioned and recently took up archery. Within a year or two was competing for Canada.

Rachel Mckinnan/Ivy - another middle aged male transitioner who happened to then become a world champion.

Watch out for E Bridges over the coming months. Still holds unbroken UK cycling records for junior males. And about to start competing in GB Cycling. How many women will now look at their inclusion in the team and figure there is just no way they even have a chance to beat a champion male cyclist? Which female who has been working all their life to train and overcome discrimination will then miss out?

And watching these athletes come through, how is this inspirational for young females. Who we absolutely know will give up sport in their teens at a far greater rate than males?

Now, let's look at the physical damage female competitors need to put themselves through to 'win' against these males. Medical reports are telling us that athletes are causing more and more harm to their bodies to gain fractions of performance gain. What harm does a female have to do to beat a male who has this performance when females are already harming their bodies to win?

This attitude of those women can just work harder, is so terribly fucked up.

Completely fucked up. Misogynistically so.

And that is not even covering off changing rooms, accommodations that might need to be shared, safeguarding.

So, no. It is actually a cognitive distortion that posters are indulging in here. It is a falsity.

Just ONE transitioned male can and does have enormous influence on each and every sport they are participating in where they compete as 'female'.

And the higher in division they climb, the greater that influence.

Brava!

@QuebecBagnet

Of course there’s only two biological sexes. Some peop live in cloud cuckoo land and are totally delusional.

Biological men should not be racing against women. It’s cheating. Yes, some women are stronger than other women but a biological man has such an advantage that a woman has no chance. More muscle, taller, better lung capacity. Why would someone want to “compete” in this way. It would be like me entering the kids sports day races and taking pleasure in beating eight year olds. 🤷‍♀️

And let’s not forget that women are losing scholarships, etc due to this person.

Exactly this.

Here's an idea to keep things fair:

For every transwomen who qualifies for a female sporting event, a transman has to qualify for a male event. If no transman qualifies, then no transwomen can.

Surely, if there are no physical differences between the sexes, this should be an easy exchange.

Right?

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

The moment someone spouts 'cis' nonsense, a word coined by a a real wrong'un, their argument is null and void in any case. But what utter garbage regarding more than two sexes. No wonder so many TAs resort to threats, violence and attempt to stop any discussion with such lack of credible arguments.

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Christine Mboma Namibia Beatrice masilingi Namibia Margaret wambui Kenya

All have the same condition as caster semanya . They are all male.

And we know their names.

What we don’t know are the names of the potentially elite female athletes from those countries whose chance of making her mark in the record books, making a living from her athletics career, telling her grandchildren that she represented her country , because those women’s chances were stolen by cheats : the athletes, the officials, the funding bodies, the international regulatory bodies all the people who turned a blind eye to the unfairness of allowing de facto men to compete as women.

@Helleofabore

Are there any stats on how many times Transpeople don’t win at races

No. And why do you think that even matters?

How many transitioned male competing in sports effect women and girls without winning?

Let's see.

It only takes one in each sport for a 'region', a 'school' or a 'country' to have a significant affect.

So, Maxine the Kent Cricketer played both male and female cricket at the same time (so I believe). Was less than stellar as a male cricketer, but in women's cricket Maxine used their male advantage to set 'female' records for the county. Because they were a male, who did not experience any negative sexist discrimination around playing cricket in their life, got lots of male oriented opportunities for training and playing. AND as a male with their physical advantages faced balls with bats that are lighter than male bats, from slower bowlers because women do not have the pace bowling, and took advantage of closer boundaries.

That male took 'women player of the year', set records that may never be broken by a female, and displaced a female from the team. And continued to be a mediocre male player on the other team.

Let's look at international level.

Laurel Hubbard. How many females did Hubbard disadvantage? A male in their 40s who already had a high level male weightlifting career. But now is also is on their 'second' career. With a millionaire dad on boards on their side smoothing the way for them. We know a NZ ex-champion female who competed against Hubbard left the sport. There was the woman who missed out on a spot in the team. But how many more were affected? How many just didn't ever think they could continue to compete with a middle aged male who had financial support and influence to just keep on going.

There are quite a few international competitors. And they may be just the single transitioned male in the area/country's sport.

There was a Canadian archer who competed. Recently transitioned and recently took up archery. Within a year or two was competing for Canada.

Rachel Mckinnan/Ivy - another middle aged male transitioner who happened to then become a world champion.

Watch out for E Bridges over the coming months. Still holds unbroken UK cycling records for junior males. And about to start competing in GB Cycling. How many women will now look at their inclusion in the team and figure there is just no way they even have a chance to beat a champion male cyclist? Which female who has been working all their life to train and overcome discrimination will then miss out?

And watching these athletes come through, how is this inspirational for young females. Who we absolutely know will give up sport in their teens at a far greater rate than males?

Now, let's look at the physical damage female competitors need to put themselves through to 'win' against these males. Medical reports are telling us that athletes are causing more and more harm to their bodies to gain fractions of performance gain. What harm does a female have to do to beat a male who has this performance when females are already harming their bodies to win?

This attitude of those women can just work harder, is so terribly fucked up.

Completely fucked up. Misogynistically so.

And that is not even covering off changing rooms, accommodations that might need to be shared, safeguarding.

So, no. It is actually a cognitive distortion that posters are indulging in here. It is a falsity.

Just ONE transitioned male can and does have enormous influence on each and every sport they are participating in where they compete as 'female'.

And the higher in division they climb, the greater that influence.

Downhill mountainbiking - Kate Weatherly NZ Fell running - Lauren Jeska UK - retired (if that is was you call no longer being able compete due to being in prison for attempted murder).

I feel we need a thread listing national and international sports competitors who are trans, by their sport.

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Christine Mboma Namibia Beatrice masilingi Namibia Margaret wambui Kenya

All have the same condition as caster semanya . They are all male.

These lovely lasses? They came in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the Women’s 800 meters at the Tokyo Olympics.

They all have DSD and are male. Africa was so lucky to stumble upon five athletes with the same run-very-fast disorder.