Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

Op us quite right - two born sexes (except rare hermaphrodites which is a disorder)
Males have fare more muscular bodies and should not be competing in female sport whether the keep their male genitalia or not.
Simples.

Should all professional/elite sports people have genetic testing ?

I believe, from listening to Sharron Davies speak, that until the late 1990s women were tested for their sex as a matter of routine checks. And that women athletes were asked and overwhelmingly wanted it to continue. It is was the OIC (I believe) who dropped it and it fell out of favour in all sports.

there's no reason why transwomen can't be treated exactly the same as ciswomen and I think that's how it should be

Why?

Well, there are lots of circumstances they should be. And in those circumstances, both should also be treated the same as "transmen" and "cismen" too. There are lots of circumstances where sex and "gender" shouldn't matter, and everyone should be treated the same.

The problem is finding any circumstance in which (transwomen+ciswomen) should be treated differently from (transmen+cismen).

There are a limited number of places and situations in which sex segregation/separation/discrimination make sense given the difference between the sexes, and what can potentially happen in a mixed-sex situation that cannot happen in a single-sex situation.

I have yet to encounter any situation in which gender segregation/separation/discrimination makes sense, given that no-one can adequately define gender, or identify what transwomen+ciswomen share that transmen+cismen don't.

And of course. Don’t believe

I have yet to encounter any situation in which gender segregation/separation/discrimination makes sense, given that no-one can adequately define gender, or identify what transwomen+ciswomen share that transmen+cismen don't.

Exactly.

@DrivingHomeChristmas

Are there any stats on how many times Transpeople don’t win at races? Maybe she was the best because she was so motivated and worked hard? It must take a lot of determination to be a trans athlete and maybe that determination is in her sport preparation too.

Yet Thomas wasn’t determined, motivated or hardworking enough to beat the 461 males ranked above Thomas when Thomas was competing against other males.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

There ARE only 2 sexes!! Denying this is denying basic biology.

Gender used to mean sex, but recently, it has been rolled off as a separate thing i.e. an expression of how society treats you. But it doesn't change actual biological fact.

Sports has been segrated to allow 'weaker' females to take part without competing with 'stonger' males. To allow 'males' into female sports flies against this. While transwomen may want society to treat them as 'women', this does NOT change actual biological fact. To believe this this is to see the Emperors new clothes.

What really pisses me off is that it's the women being expected to make room.for a subset of biological males.

No thank you.

Males should make room for a subset of biological males. Let Lia compete in a TW / Open division of the male championships. Let TM compete in a TM / Open division of womens championships.

Why should women get stepped on to accommodate biological males all the time?

Excellent post

Yet Thomas wasn’t determined, motivated or hardworking enough to beat the 461 males ranked above Thomas when Thomas was competing against other males.

I wonder why that is, when both sexes are supposedly physically equal?

There was a recent marathon with an open class and a number of NB people chose to run in that.

Zackary Harris won the NB open class and finished in overall 1033rd place a time that would have placed ZH #895 in the male race. ZH was very unhappy about the prize money available to the male and female races (thousands of competitors) v that in the NB field of 16.

Note that the qualifying time for 18-34-year-old males is 2:53. For 18-34-year-old females, it's 3:13.

26-year-old Harris finished at 3:09 (outside the men's qualifying time).

results.nyrr.org/event/M2021/finishers#search=Zackary%2520Harris

The gap in finishing time for other members of the NB category is very interesting for anyone who wants to look at this with an eye to Lia Thomas' times relative to the swimming competitors.

results.nyrr.org/event/M2021/finishers#g=X&page=1

Well said

Are there any stats on how many times Transpeople don’t win at races? Maybe she was the best because she was so motivated and worked hard? It must take a lot of determination to be a trans athlete and maybe that determination is in her sport preparation too.

@DrivingHomeChristmas Do you honestly believe what you're suggesting here? Are you actually so misogynistic that you'll imply that the girls competing against Lia are lazier and less motivated. What a hateful accusation.

Caster Semenya is male and is likely the father of the child his wife gave birth to.

Just like Erik Schinegger the skier who found out he was male after being brought up female and went on ti father children. He gave back the medals he had won as he said it wasn't fair to have competed against women. Now that's integrity.

My sympathy for Caster Semenya is only increasing reading the posts here of people who know better than her what her gender is, despite her being intersex , legally female, raised as female, and always identifyin as female.
The hatred is crazy.

Caster Semenya is intersex, was assigned female at birth, has always identified as female. She is not male and has never been male. Her sex is intersex and her gender is female. Yes, because she is intersex, she has male characteristics. This does not make her a man in any shape or form. She is not a transwoman as she has always been female.

'Intersex' is not a sex! Christ on a bike......

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

Oh for goodness sake! Go away.

@FarangGirl

My sympathy for Caster Semenya is only increasing reading the posts here of people who know better than her what her gender is, despite her being intersex , legally female, raised as female, and always identifyin as female. The hatred is crazy.

Do you have no compassion for female athletes displaced from places on the podium where the position brings prize money, sponsorship deals, scholarships etc. and inspires generations of young girls?

Are there any stats on how many times Transpeople don’t win at races? Maybe she was the best because she was so motivated and worked hard? It must take a lot of determination to be a trans athlete and maybe that determination is in her sport preparation too.

What a load of gaslighty bollocks...literally.

Did anyone see the video of Lia winning the race - all the other female athletes are creating a lot of splash behind them from where they are kicking full pelt, behind Lia there is hardly splash at all, it's unbelievable!

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

So what are the other sexes . Please educate us.

Caster Semenyer has a disorder of sexual development called 5-alpha reductase deficiency. It is a disorder which affects those who are XY.

"5-alpha reductase deficiency: MedlinePlus Genetics" medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/

If they wish to identify as a woman, that is entirely up to them. They are not female though.

Reality is not transphobia.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

Dodesn’t matter what sex you are. Male, female or something not male or female. As long as you compete in that category.

I don't understand why Lia's time isn't recorded as top transwoman in the race, and the next best time is fastest female. (Assuming there is only one transwoman in the race).

As I mentioned earlier, considering how rare DSDs are, it’s “amazing” the the podium in the Womens 800m Final at the Rio Olympics was filled by 3 athletes with the same rare condition.