Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

@ImaniMumsnet

HI OP,

We are sorry you were unable to find the voting function for AIBU, it is usually an option you can select when creating a thread under AIBU. You can find it under 'Thread Type' and it says 'Enable voting' with a yes/no option. We would have loved to add this feature in for you but unfortunately we cannot add it retrospectively. On that note, we are going to move this to the 'Sex and Gender' topic as that seems like the next best fit

Nice job at hiding the debate so only women who are already interested in these topics will find it. Why not let it stand so everyone can see how woman's, that is the actual biological sex not the gender identity, rights are being eroded and erased instead of helping to erased them

Non-trans women are called women. Non-trans men are called men.

That has worked for millennia upon millennia and does not need messing with now.

I have just listened to a public health message on the radio about prostate cancer. The words MAN and MEN are used clearly and emphatically throughout.
OTOH it is considered transphobic to use the words WOMAN/WOMEN/GIRLS when promoting cervical screening. We have to be referred to as "cervix havers", "people with a cervix".
When advertising sanitary products we have to be referred to as "bleeders", "menstruators" "people who menstruate".
Apparently it is "young people" who are embarrassed or ashamed about their periods, not "girls".
It is all very much about erasing women and girls, but men are still allowed to have their words.

For anyone interested in why these girls are not objecting or refusing to compete. Heartbreaking testimony by the mother of one of Lia Thomas' team mates.

Thank you - was just about to post that, but you beat me to it. I also was going to use the word "heartbreaking".

There's also a previous thread on that video with some transcripts.

@imaniMumsnet Cross posted, glad you reconsidered your decision

How does this nonsense word CIS derive? Is it pronounced Siss or Kiss?

I’m pleased this stayed in AIBU. This isn’t a niche topic. Every single woman on here with a daughter who is involved with sport is impacted by this

Oh. I did wonder how long it would take for this to be moved to the naughty corner.
There seemed to be a number of posters who were new to this information.
What a pity MN seem to be determined to hide it.

Hi Everyone,

We just wanted to apologise as we realise we made the wrong call by moving the thread out of AIBU to the Sex and Gender topic. Thank you for flagging this and we will be more mindful in future.

I sometimes call them penis people. Very effective.

For example: penis people do not belong on female hospital wards. Penis people do not belong in female prisons where women have no opportunity for consent, no way to protect themselves and no way to exit that space. Penis people do not belong in female changing rooms. Penis people do not belong in female swimming races.

Tends to focus the mind on the realities of the situation, I find.

Above was in reply to @endofthelinefinally

YANBU OP.

Wrong to let this person compete!

Who makes the decision?

I feel so sorry for the other athletes!

Oops. Sorry, just seen it is still in AIBU. I can't keep up!

Should all professional/elite sports people have genetic testing ? Genuinely curious.
Is it ever fair to say testosterone levels at an acceptable level for 3 years mean you would be competing from an equal baseline ? If so can cis female competitors take testosterone supplements to take them up to that level? Would they want to ?
If there is no advantage for trans women in competition why aren't we seeing more trans men competing or at least attempting to ?

Apologies the only link I can find that is not behind a paywall is to the daily mail
But this case just sums up the horror of where we are

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10625997/amp/Hospital-said-rape-single-sex-ward-not-possible-revealing-one-patient-trans.html

@Hertsgirl10

I don’t think it’s brave I think it’s common sense, that’s not what I meant about Caitlyn Jenner though, I meant from when out of all the females on the planet, a trans woman who just changed gender is crowned women of the year who has been a women for about a year, then something is going on? Not 1 actual woman - cis - natural - normal - woman I dunno what we’re allowed to be called anymore but what ever we are, not one was worthy enough to be woman of the year, because an ex man was what mattered, I dunno if it was the publicity off the back of the kardashian frenzy that’s taken over the world or people like the 1st commenter on this post that just presumes all people are so think and uneducated to understand these complex things, when the irony is it’s them that don’t seem to have any understanding of anything other than what the media is pumping out there.

I think that was the turning point of it all which set the standard of what women feel doesn’t matter because a man in what ever form is in, matters more than what any female females feel.

I don’t know if i have said that as well as I mean it but I think you get the jist.

I think you said that well and I totally get the gist and you've described how I feel better than I could have done. Thankyou.

She’s going to get a backlash from it. It also opens the door for more trans people to support women surely?

I'm not saying C.Jenner shouldn't speak out. I'm saying I am not going to fawn over them considering it's a highly hypocritical move as they robbed a woman of an award by accepting it.

People need to be free to discuss this without having transphobia chucked at them.
Well yes. I think you'll find nobody sane would be calling CJ transphobia.

You do realise you are setting such a low bar for them precisely because of their sex?

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

would you be happy to jump In a boxing ring with a man who's height and weight matched yours?

Because im sure it wouldnt well for you.

Everyone has the right to be included ,but not at the detriment to another group

Protesting is a start, it's not enough.

I think every time a man tries to compete in a womens race, of any kind, at any level, all the women should just walk away. Don't get on the pool, on the track, on the pitch. Don't engage.

Anyone wanna start a campaign?

What is happening at a board level with all this? Everybody I know in real life, everybody, that's man, woman, everyone - thinks it's absurd.

Agree with you.

My ds is a swimmer. He has a disability. Therefore he competes against people with similar levels of affect on their swimming due to their own disabilities.

Even as an S9 classified male he beats non disabled biological woman of the same age. Because despite everything his biology makes him stronger in the muscles/ limbs he has that work the same as his non disabled peers.

I totally agree with allowing inclusion. I've said for years you should have transgender games. But they should be a sewerage sport the same way para sport is separate. It isn't a level playing field and undermines sports as a whole.

I would like to thank Lia Thomas. They have peaked a lot of people.

YANBU. Lia Thomas shouldn’t be allowed to compete against real women. Apparently when he won at one competition, not one single person clapped. Apparently, he was very mediocre before transitioning, pathetic. There needs to be a trans category.

And before anyone calls me transphobic, don’t bother. I’m aware I’m calling a trans woman ‘he’. That’s my right and I’ll continue to do so.

[quote DoobryWhatsit]**@ToCaden I used to be broadly of your opinion. But when you really drill down into it, it's a meaningless stance. You can't logically say that you believe that TWAW, whilst simultaneously saying they shouldn't compete against actual women. By saying they shouldn't compete against women, you are exactly saying that you DON'T believe TWAW.[/quote]
Why not for curiosities sake? I also believe cis women with very high testosterone (much higher than other cis women through supplementation or other means) also may have an unfair advantage.

I can believe that transwomen are women and not be abusive or dismissive of a protected minority group, and yet think critically about the question op has raised.

Personally I just wish others on this thread could do the same. I'm going to back out now as it's making me lose faith in humanity.

The problem with that is that yet again the onus is on women to give something up in this case their right to compete and enjoyment of sport rather than the governing bodies of sport not too behave like complete & utter fuckwits

British cycling for example is fine for TW to compete with women - see Emily bridges

@endofthelinefinally

Oh. I did wonder how long it would take for this to be moved to the naughty corner. There seemed to be a number of posters who were new to this information. What a pity MN seem to be determined to hide it.

That's why I posted in AIBU for the views and opinions of people that may not be as well versed as some in the other sections of the site.