Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

I'm glad to see this back in AIBU - and I say this as someone who believes generally that such things as preferred pronouns should be respected.

I don't see how even the least 'gender critical' person could possibly accept this situation as fair.

My daughter was talking about this to me yesterday. She doesn't normally get angry but she was livid, more so than I've ever seen her. She said if she was any of them women she wouldn't even compete if there was a man going up against them.

We both agreed that the woman who came second was the winner. She was cheated.

Oops cross posted!!!!!
Sorry @ImaniMumsnet

@Peregrina

Someone mentioned mixed races in swimming. How about the mixed doubles in tennis? You can bet your life that the men would start objecting to a mixed team consisting of a man and a transwoman. But I suppose you could have a transman and a transwoman on the same side and that would make it far.

A transman is still likely to be using testosterone, which would be considered a performance enhancing drug in any other sporting context.

If trans women are women, how do we identify the exceptions?

As the law says re sport, where there are issues of fairness or safety. A proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim.

It’s for society and the process of law etc to decide what is proportionate and legitimate.

Mind you, anyone who is interested in reading more ... it is long and has many, many links. But is a good place to start if you want to understand more about what is going on.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Maybe time for women to simply refuse to compete when this unfair situation exists. But how bad is that?

[quote DuckyNoMates]@TracyMosby that sounds awful. There is no place for erect penises in the women's changing room.[/quote]
Absolutly not.

@whytcvv

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

Would love to see a sport coach response but I find it ridiculous. Someone transitioning will have so much natural male sex hormones, bigger skeleton, more muscle, whatever point in the transition that's still true. No woman can compete with that.

@SigourneyHoward

Wow I've not seen a reversal off the naughty step before. Thanks *@ImaniMumsnet*

I was just thinking that, but wasn't sure, cos only been haunting MN for a year or two.

@ClariceQuiff

I'm glad to see this back in AIBU - and I say this as someone who believes generally that such things as preferred pronouns should be respected.

I don't see how even the least 'gender critical' person could possibly accept this situation as fair.

This - let's bring it out into the light where it belongs.

@Justkeeppedaling

Cis means they identify with the gender they were born as, ie. Born female, identify as female.

So "man" and "woman" then? No need for the cis prefix. There are no subsets of "man" and "woman"

Apparently according to Twitter I am a ‘cis woman’ because identifying with the gender I was born makes me a sheep that goes blindly along with what society says I can and can’t be and do.

I think that gives you insight into what they think.

MY DH was talking about this too, and asking my opinion and I was surprised that the issue had even crossed his radar! So it's definitely a topic which shouldn't be tidied away to a minority corner.

Women are being cheated by men like Lia Thomas - he can call himself she and wear a dress but he's not a woman. And if you want to call me transphobic - go ahead. Oh and BTW as a person who has gone through the menopause, have I become non-female?

@MyLittlePhonyPony

I don't think Caitlyn Jenner deserves any kudos for calling this out in sport since Caitlin took an opportunity away from a biological women when Caitlyn accepted Glamour women of the year.

It's exactly the same as Lia. One in sport the other in general achievement.

Also Caitlyn thinks the hardest thing about being a women is deciding what to wear.
Said no women ever.

I think having a trans woman who was a professional sportsman speaking out in support of women does deserve kudos.

She’s going to get a backlash from it. It also opens the door for more trans people to support women surely?

People need to be free to discuss this without having transphobia chucked at them.

I’m not anyone who has messaged here but this is typical of the thought:

@Superhanz

Please explain to be what being transphobic is please?

@ToCaden I used to be broadly of your opinion. But when you really drill down into it, it's a meaningless stance. You can't logically say that you believe that TWAW, whilst simultaneously saying they shouldn't compete against actual women. By saying they shouldn't compete against women, you are exactly saying that you DON'T believe TWAW.

There’s no room for penises - whatever their state - in women’s changing rooms. Nor in rape crisis centres, shelters, prisons, hospitals, school toilets, etc.

And yet...

This is where ‘being kind’ gets us.

Be kind = be compliant.

@ImaniMumsnet

HI OP,

We are sorry you were unable to find the voting function for AIBU, it is usually an option you can select when creating a thread under AIBU. You can find it under 'Thread Type' and it says 'Enable voting' with a yes/no option. We would have loved to add this feature in for you but unfortunately we cannot add it retrospectively. On that note, we are going to move this to the 'Sex and Gender' topic as that seems like the next best fit

Actually given the robust nature of discussion in AiBU I think it is a very good fit and it should not be moved... Just saying...

Oh and girl guides trip accommodations, hmmm anything else to add to that list?

I went on a transgender awareness seminar at work once. We were told that the cis prefix had come about because otherwise non trans people would be called “normal”. I don’t object to the term in academic discourse, but In hindsight elements of that seminar made me quite uncomfortable.

@Sloth66

Maybe time for women to simply refuse to compete when this unfair situation exists. But how bad is that?

For anyone interested in why these girls are not objecting or refusing to compete. Heartbreaking testimony by the mother of one of Lia Thomas' team mates.

Sorry my reading is slower than the pace of this topic!!!

@Sloth66

Maybe time for women to simply refuse to compete when this unfair situation exists. But how bad is that?

Women will end up competing in secret

@CounsellorTroi

I went on a transgender awareness seminar at work once. We were told that the cis prefix had come about because otherwise non trans people would be called “normal”. I don’t object to the term in academic discourse, but In hindsight elements of that seminar made me quite uncomfortable.

The term is offensive and should not be used in academic discourse either.

It is entirely unnecessary.