Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

@CounsellorTroi

Exactly, as I pointed out, most TW are fertile males,

This isn’t something you can really know. Having a functioning penis and capability to ejaculate sperm is not a guarantee of fertility.

The clue is in the word 'most'. Most men are fertile.

Erm no.. can you read?

@HouseOfGoldandBones

@HouseOfGoldandBones

How does a person "identify as female"?

No TRA or ally has ever been able (to my knowledge) define what a woman is without using the term woman in the definition.

There's mostly 2 sexes but there are a very small number of people with an additional chromosome meaning they are neither xx or xy - I don't think this is particularly relevant to athletes as the additional chromosome causes health problems but it's too simplistic to state categorically 2 sexes.

Whether trans should compete is a different question, personally I think they should compete in their biological sex category not chosen gender because testosterone during puberty conveys advantages that are not reversed by taking hormones later in life

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky absolutely! Fertility is not womanhood, nor is it a prerequisite of being female. Prepubescent girls are female, infertile women are female, menopausal women are female.

When women seek treatment for fertility they are treated for sex specific conditions, no one tries to improve their sperm count in case that works better.

Weakening male bodies by lowering testosterone:

• does not make them female
• does not remove the advantage that a testosterone puberty gives, which are life long and benefit every part of the body
• is only one factor and does nothing to address other sex based differences such as heart size, vO 2 max, amount of fast twitch muscle fibres, height, body fat, grip strength, arm span, bio mechanical differences in hips/pelvis etc etc…

If it is so key, then should we also open up womens sport to all males with low testosterone? Aren’t we discriminating against them by allowing in only some low-testosterone males? Why is that discrimination OK?

This isn’t something you can really know. Having a functioning penis and capability to ejaculate sperm is not a guarantee of fertility.

Most people are fertile at some time in their lives, I didn't say I could tell whether individuals were. TW are just bog standard males so there is no reason to believe they wouldn't be.

transmen can compete with cis men in sports.

They can. But they would be unlikely to win.

so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports

No. Women competing in men's sport would have no impact on men winning in their own sport. Men competing in women's sport means women's sport will be destroyed for women.

This is not transphobia. This is common sense. Something that is severely lacking with some people these days.

@Clarabella77

There is a third biological sex surely? Hermaphrodites have both sets of genitals. Rare and nothing to do with being trans but I think that makes it factually inaccurate to say there are just two biological sexes.

Human beings are a dimorphic species. There are two sexes - male and female. People who have a Disorder of Sexual Development are either male or female and if needed, which sex can be confirmed through karyotyping.

I believe the term 'hermaphrodite' is considered outdated and stigmatising.

By bog standard I mean "perfectly average and unremarkable". It's not a value judgement either way.

ToCaden
Some of the posts on here are hateful and transphobic (I'm not talking about the ones saying transwomen shouldn't compete against cis women BTW, but the ones who try to insist transwomen are not women).

Are you aware that transwomen are not women is a protected belief?

HI OP,

We are sorry you were unable to find the voting function for AIBU, it is usually an option you can select when creating a thread under AIBU. You can find it under 'Thread Type' and it says 'Enable voting' with a yes/no option. We would have loved to add this feature in for you but unfortunately we cannot add it retrospectively. On that note, we are going to move this to the 'Sex and Gender' topic as that seems like the next best fit

@Clarabella77

There is a third biological sex surely? Hermaphrodites have both sets of genitals. Rare and nothing to do with being trans but I think that makes it factually inaccurate to say there are just two biological sexes.

I don't think 'hermaphrodites' is the correct term these days and the very tiny number of people that have a DSD which results in both sets reproductive organs being present in some way (I assume you mean reproductive organs rather than 'genitals') are not a 'third sex'? There is not 'third gamete'.

Honestly the ignorance around DSDs has really been brought into sharp relief by transactivism hasn't it. In Parliament the other week, an actual MP said that the percentage of people who had characteristics of both sexes was the same as 'ginger people'

Totally agree. My daughter is a keen sprinter, she doesn't stand a chance against trans athletes it is so unfair.

There are AIBUs about all sorts of topics, most of the posters on this thread aren't regulars on the feminism boards, why is it being moved?

@gogohm sorry but no.

XX = female
XO = female
XXX = female.

Add 1 or more Y chromosomes = male, no many how many Xs are present, even if the secondary sexual characteristics are expressed differently. Telling an xxy man he's not a man is also pretty offensive.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

You are or you're.

There are only 2 sexes.

cis in an insult, please stop using it.

Biology is not transphobia.

The idea that a woman is nothing more than a 'weakened man' is pretty misogynistic isn't it?

@ImaniMumsnet Stop doing that. This affects all women and girls. It does not need moving to the ‘naughty corner’ FGS.

IT'S BEING MOVED AS ADVERTISERS WON'T LIKE IT!!

Trans people should only be allowed to compete against other trans, its not really a hard concept.
So much is done on PED's in sport yet a man can come along, say he is a woman and its all tickety boo.

If this was effecting mens sport, you can bet your life it wouldn't be allowed but as usual womens sport gets the shit end of the stick.

Oh fgs!! How is this not a topic that concerns all women?? The OP started it in AIBU for a reason!!

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

I agree with this. Especially the last line!

There's mostly 2 sexes but there are a very small number of people with an additional chromosome meaning they are neither xx or xy - I don't think this is particularly relevant to athletes as the additional chromosome causes health problems but it's too simplistic to state categorically 2 sexes.

So what is the third, fourth, fifth sex then? People with DSDs are still male or female!