Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

So occasionally people come on here to say that one woman can be born taller, stronger than the average woman and that’s no different. And that trans women are just lucky to have a physical advantage to cis women. But if you are going to take that stance you might as well just have one “human “ category which anyone can compete in.

@RoccosGirl

Even if gender identity was a real thing - why would it trump the reality of your sexed body? We don’t play sport with a feeling in our head.

Yes that's what I was thinking, it is about your body not your dress sense.

There is a really nice article published by Breathe which goes through the differences between lung function and lung capacity and the impact on exercise and clinical prevalence to various diseases. Ive attached some screenshots of some of the more relevant points in respect of the OP.

I wonder how far they’ll let this go? When a Womens’ Olympic Final is run entirely by ‘Trans Women’ (entire men) will that be enough of a light bulb moment for the authorities to come back to reality?

I’m glad I’m old. I can’t lie about what I see and what I know to be true. If a man wants to be a ‘woman’ (or what they perceive to be ‘being a woman’) fine, crack on. But the truth is you’re still physically a man so have the common decency to keep out of our safe spaces and our sport.

It’s the end of womens sport if this isn’t challenged. Absolutely ridiculous.

#NoThankyou

Fascinatingly the differences in lung development in men and women actually starts prenatally too

There's good reasons why we segregate certain things by sex, not gender.
Tinkering with testosterone really doesn't cut it.
There needs to be a fairer way to allow transgender athletes to compete. The current situation of allowing transwomen to compete against women just isn't fair. It must feel like a hollow victory really.

@ThatsALotOfPassionfruit

Are there actually any instances of transmen competing in competitive male sports or is this another thing solely reserved for women to have to just suck up?

Like a PP I fear for the things my young DD will have to put up with in years to come to avoid being (allegedly) transphobic

Yes there are females in competitive sports competing against males. A few are successful (triathlon moor(?) and a boxer both in the USA) but being able to medicate to increese hormones would have enhanced impact on female biology as demonstrated by all the sport doping scandals.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

Unless someone is inter-sex i.e. someone born with a mixture of male and female characteristics (a-typical chromosomal make-up or genetalia that is not typical for someone born female or male) then there are only two sexes. Male or Female. There are multiple gender identities to which someone can identify themselves to.

A woman who was born female is not a man because she does not act or dress as a stereotypical woman.

People born female are not built in the same way as someone born male. This is why it isn’t fair for trans women to compete with women.

I didn’t think it was 462 in the world but in the male college swimming league?

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Pictures always speak a thousand words

I hate, yet love this picture at the same time.

I do think the world is going insane. Why not have a separate category for trans people or then everyone competes in the category they were born in?

Apologies if this has been said already, but a comparison of the track record of TM in men's sport and TW in women's sport will surely show that there is a real problem here. We can respect Lia Thomas' right to live as a woman whilst asking how on earth she can see her victory as anything but completely hollow.

Protect trans rights, absolutely. But we have to find a way to do that whilst protecting women's rights too.

It's weird. I've never met anyone, man or woman , who doesn't think it's total bullshit

@Boredoutmymind

This source shows the results if the 2016 High School Boys NBNO Finalists vs 2016 Olympic Women's Finalists were pitted against each other. It makes pretty stark viewing.
The swimming results are particularly interesting.

Brave women in that picture. They could lose all their sponsorship and be subjected to the same torrent of threats and abuse as JKR for that. By people who don't know what a woman is, natch.

We can respect Lia Thomas' right to live as a woman

How can Lia Thomas "live as a woman", when Lia Thomas is male? Or do you mean "call themselves a woman"? Which changing rooms should Lia use? There's already been some tension with the female swimmers.

It’s cheating.
There should be a separate comp for trans women to be able to compete.

I normally defend transwomen if it's an issue of, say, misgendering causing offence. But in this case, I don't think what has happened is right. The transwoman has an unfair advantage. There should be a separate racing category for transwomen.

@TigerMTV

It’s cheating. There should be a separate comp for trans women to be able to compete.

But then we would have to entertain the idea that a female gender identity and a female sexed body are comprehensively different things and there are times when that difference matters.

[quote DuckyNoMates]@Boredoutmymind what is a cis man and a cis woman?[/quote]
As I understand it, the use of CIS drops us down a level in hierarchy to create the layer Trans and Cis.

I respect the right of anyone to live the way they want, but it doesn’t change Biology

Woman is adult human
Man is adult human

Trans woman and Trans man is a choice to identify differently

I’m a swimmer, I’m horrified by these events and the dropping of towels in changing rooms is out and out unnecessary and abusive. It’s absolutely covered in existing law and
should be properly policed.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

We can respect Lia Thomas' right to live as a woman

How can Lia Thomas "live as a woman", when Lia Thomas is male? Or do you mean "call themselves a woman"? Which changing rooms should Lia use? There's already been some tension with the female swimmers.

He walks around with his dick hanging out, and calls himself a lesbian.

He is behaving like a sex predator, or he’s mentally very unwell.

Sorry the source is boysvswomen.com/#/ by the way.

@HomeHomeInTheRange

I think it is great that Lia T is accepted as a woman and should not be subject to abuse or exclusion for being Trans.

Let her wear a swimming costume instead of trunks, tuck long hair into a swim cap, wear waterproof mascara.,. and compete against swimmers of her physical class.

And if any of those swimmers objects or harasses her in the changing room then he should have his place in the team and the college withdrawn for being transphobic.

Seems fair to me.

You had me going there @HomeHomeInTheRange until I read your post properly