Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result

[whytcvv]

When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Don't know how to add poll.

Yanbu
There is absolutely no point segregating sport by gender identity. If gender identity is the divisor between mens and womens sports then its ridiculous to have different categories and there should be just one single championship for "people".

The rationale behind there being mens and womens sports separately is entirely based on the principle that male and female bodies are different physically. The ideology that says that people who grew up perceived as male are actually women rejects that principle altogether so it doesn't make any sense to want to keep a category for women but allow anyone with a female gender identity to compete in it.

People who go through male puberty have longer bones, more muscles and faster reflexes than people who don't. Gender identity doesn't change this. Surgery doesn't. Chemically lowering testosterone has very little effect on most of the factors that give this category of people an advantage.

Most sports played are about learning participation and teamwork and it doesn't much matter who wins. Whenever it matters who wins, those who have been through male puberty - whatever their gender identity - will have advantage over those who haven't and without segregation on the basis of biology the vast majority of champions at all levels will be male.

There are approximately 10,000 male people worldwide whose personal best time at the 100m sprint beats the olympic gold winner for the female category. If there wasn't a female category then there would be no fenales at all in the final race. In general most transwomen are not in that elite of the fastest 10,000 male people in the world (after all that is out of a pool of 3.5 billion male people) but just one of those 10,000 needs to identify as a woman and there is no more recognition for the fastest female sprinter, if the categorisation is by gender identity.

Being a champion is great, having a chance to be a champion is inspiring, working towards achieving ones dreams of being a champion is an amazing opportunity. If you don't have sport segregated by biology then these benefits are simply denied to those whose biology put them in the female category from the moment of conception. That a sports organisation body thinks this is a fair price to pay in order to be kind to transwomen is institutionalised sexism.

Even if gender identity was a real thing - why would it trump the reality of your sexed body? We don’t play sport with a feeling in our head.

Putting the 'he' in 'cheat'.

Clearly Lia's psychology wasn't good enough to beat other men.

462nd in the world when competing against men, I believe.

He's a man and a cheat. Everyone knows it, deep down.

@nolongersurprised I like the idea of female and open categories.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

I would suggest that you do some research.

Why is it transphobic to point out well known biological facts?

Transphobia is stating that all trans women are, say rapists. That’s definite transphobia.

Saying that trans women, who have the biological advantages of males having grown up as males and had that hormonal advantage, is not transphobic.

It’s fact.

@WeCouldBeSpearows

Hope do you define biological woman? The woman mentioned in the article above is chromosomally male, but only discovered that when she was pregnant.

In general terms, most people are xx or xy, and the way their body develops fits in with that. But, as with everything, life is not that simple.

No, they are female with a DSD. If they had been male, they would not have been able to gestate another human.

@QuebecBagnet

Haven’t the professional USA swim body moved to saying testosterone needs to be under a certain level for three years before being allowed to compete? The college swim body needs to move to this. This swimmer wouldn’t have been allowed to compete under these rules. Because it’s unfair!

That’s how it was measured before. They then did some test events after caster semenya appealed it (hers is different to the trans issue, but ultimately a similar result due to her testosterone increase).

[quote WouldBeGood]@nolongersurprised I like the idea of female and open categories.[/quote]
That's Sharron Davies' solution.

I can’t fathom how anyone allowing this to happen sleeps at night. Someone is 462nd against their own sex and is now beating Olympic silver medalists when cheating against women. And it is just being allowed to happen?

LT could have been allowed to swim a few exhibition laps. But no. Erasure of women and everything they ever fought for is the goal.

@Boredoutmymind

your wrong saying only 2 sexes can be born. do some research .

some women are stronger, taller than some men and other women. should these women not be allowed to compete?
transmen can compete with cis men in sports.
so transwomen can compete with cis women in sports.
should we have weight and height classes in all sports?
Where does it end?

too much transphobia on here.

What an utterly weak post. When did challenging biological advantage become transphobia?

I mean, it’s so utterly outrageous that I can only conclude that Thomas is actually trolling us all to expose the end game of the TRA demands.

No, of course, it's not fair. Go and watch a video of this race. The girls are all kicking away and there's barely any movement around LT's feet.
twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1504508225734922254
I won't tell you which one is LT, I'm sure you'll work it out.

LT could probably win by more than 30 seconds if LT went flat out (like they did in another race before realising that the optics of it were bad).

When did challenging biological advantage become transphobia?

In the mainstream, around 2019.

Yanbu.

Good for them. We need to protest and protest. Everybody sane knows it's absurd. I'm hoping the ridiculousness of this man will actually be the turning point. Naive maybe.
If a man ends up at eg an olympics in the womens event, the women need to make an absolutely public stand by refusing to compete. Maybe get to the final, get on the block, then don't dive in. All together.
That photo of the gb team in 2020 says it all.

There are only 2 sexes.
Do some research.

And as for the ridiculous "What about tall strong women" argument........... of course top women athletes in some sports are strong and tall. That's why they are athletes. They compete against other strong tall women athletes. They should not have to compete against people who are also tall and strong, but with the additional tallness and strongness that comes from BEING A MAN.

Women of a different body shape who aren't tall and strong, don't tend to be athletes in tall strong sports.

Its not complicated.

Conflating women with athletic body shapes with men is just absurd.

@QuebecBagnet

Haven’t the professional USA swim body moved to saying testosterone needs to be under a certain level for three years before being allowed to compete? The college swim body needs to move to this. This swimmer wouldn’t have been allowed to compete under these rules. Because it’s unfair!

I will never understand how this is supposed to unpick the advantages from having a male puberty awash with the stuff, a from the impact on your heart and lungs to the bones.

This site shows what we need to know about the relative performance of boys and women in various sports and the impact of hormones.

boysvswomen.com/#/

boysvswomen.com/#/testosterone

I had a boyfriend years ago who was a cyclist. He was quite good but he wasn't brilliant either. When he got to 22 he lied about his age to compete in colt's races. It reminds me of that.

And this is the thing that JK Rowling is bullied for pointing out and idiots like Emma Watson jump on the bulky bandwagon. Just to virtue signal. Nothing virtuous about cheating.

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Pictures always speak a thousand words

Brave women. Feel a bit sorry for the 4th placed athlete looking at that. I wonder if they discussed before hand.

@DrivingHomeChristmas

My daughter has learning disabilities. It has taken years of work and fighting the system for her to be able to acccess a level 3 course at college. She has to have a TA and various other support. She has come top in every exam in her year. Not because of the concessions she has but because she has worked so hard after fighting to be on the course. It’s not just about physique and biology- sportspeople will tell you it’s psychology far more than training.

So Paula Radcliffe, won the female class in her marathons while the front male runners had already finished and been sitting down with a cup of tea for ten minutes.

Was she insufficiently motivated? Did she slack off or have the wrong psychology? Should she have just tried harder?

@ChiefAdjusterOfRubensShorts

I totally agree with you OP.

There should be a separate category for trans athletes.

Agreed, this would be fair.

@AnneBoleynsSixthFinger

Putting the 'he' in 'cheat'.

Brilliant! Post of the day.

I'm so glad athletes are standing up and saying this isn't right. It's not. It's not fair. Being a biological male gives them an advantage over women, it's not transphobic, it's a fact. Male lungs and hearts are bigger.

@DrSbaitso

Clearly Lia's psychology wasn't good enough to beat other men.

462nd in the world when competing against men, I believe.

I mean that's not bad really