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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Babies like zombies at nursery

229 replies

BlueTreeCat · 18/03/2022 20:09

I’m trying to decide between childminder and nursery for my LO at the mo. At the nurseries I’ve visited all the babies just seem to be sat there all listless and blank looking. No smiling, no laughing, just sat staring, or crying. Is this normal for nurseries or have I just visited some poor ones? What’s been your experience? I’m talking babies 12 months and younger here. It’s not so bad with the older ones I don’t think, from what I’ve seen.

OP posts:
Nodancingshoes · 19/03/2022 08:47

Well at our nursery the staff are sat on the floor playing with the babies who clearly adore them...Choose a better nursery to look at!

Nodancingshoes · 19/03/2022 08:52

Some childminders are pretty awful too. I watched one at sports day. She couldn't have looked more bored and disinterested and didn't talk to or interact with the two miserable looking toddlers in her pushchair once. There is good and bad in all fields.

Somethingsnappy · 19/03/2022 08:56

@CurlyhairedAssassin

She had already developed secure attachments to her primary caregivers who were then, and still remain, her dad and I.

You were happy in your choice for your daughter and that's great, but you say yourself that her secure attachments were you, and assuming she was in nursery FT, then for a great part of her waking hours, her secure attachments suddenly weren't there. That is simply a fact. If parents have done research to find out the effect on children of removing their secure attachments at that stage of development, and are happy with it, then that's fine. Some parents prefer the idea of childminders precisely because of this - they can develop a close bond with them (i.e. another secure attachment), in a homely quieter environment. I'm sure some babies would prefer this. Perhaps others who are more robust and extroverted may be equally as happy in a nursery at that age.

Although I too (as part of my degree) have seen the research that suggests that nurseries are not as ideal (for babies) as staying with their primary caregiver, I do think that the allocation of key workers to each child in good nurseries aims to address this issue.
TabithaHazel · 19/03/2022 09:03

Lots of nurseries have an app where you can check in during the day and see what your child is up to - I would go for one that had that if you are worried about levels of interaction.

BobbinHood · 19/03/2022 09:15

You were happy in your choice for your daughter and that's great, but you say yourself that her secure attachments were you, and assuming she was in nursery FT, then for a great part of her waking hours, her secure attachments suddenly weren't there.

Suddenly weren’t there in that she was gradually introduced to her key person over a course of sessions that built up the time progressively? I don’t see how this is different from being “suddenly left” with a childminder, nanny or indeed grandparent.

Icelandicsox · 19/03/2022 09:24

OP, that doesn't sound good at all.
I had to put DS2 into nursery at 9 months and our baby room was lovely. It looked like a Heath Robinson machine powered by babies Grin.
The room was staffed by the most experienced staff at the nursery, there were loads of hugs and smiling. They had a sort of side room with a big glass wall for napping but the main room was always busy with singing, gabbling and clattering about.

Owieeee · 19/03/2022 09:29

Are people aware how low the pay is for workers in nurseries? Isn't it min wage in some cases? That's insane for a job that is very hard and often mind numbing. Imagine having to take care of small babies all day, v limited outdoor time , babies who naturally have very little to no concentration span. Many years ago I worked in a few on a gap year from uni and it was v v tough work, very little outside time, kids constantly sick , often in the same room for hours on end, staff would grow resentful even towards the DC's as such low pay and v high turnover. Avoid nursery with young staff, anytime your baby has a nappy rash or dirty face check things out. I never put my DCS in one because of my experience but totally get that some ppl have no choice or want to etc but I think there's prob a bit of head in the sand about it all.

Parker231 · 19/03/2022 09:33

No head in the sand here - we checked our loads of nurseries and eventually DH found the one we went with. A nine month waiting list, local, family business, low staff turnover, degree educated staff and lots of outdoor space.

Nurseries can be brilliant - just choose the right one

Fourducklngsonthepond · 19/03/2022 09:37

I would definitely do a childminder for a baby. It's a more homely environment, stricter limits on how many children etc. They'll be made a fuss of by childminder and older mindees. Nurseries for babies seems a bit odd to me. Reconsider nursery once baby is a toddler (12 months)

Owieeee · 19/03/2022 09:49

I really hope and presume that degree educated staff were we earning well over min wage then @Parker231

BobbinHood · 19/03/2022 09:51

Are people aware how low the pay is for workers in nurseries? Isn't it min wage in some cases? That's insane for a job that is very hard and often mind numbing.

Yes it’s appallingly low. I don’t think that low pay automatically means someone isn’t doing a good job, however, so it’s not a factor that convinced me to use a childminder (equally low paid, unless they’re just doing it as an add on to looking after their own kids in which case - no thanks) instead of a nursery.

Makeitsoso · 19/03/2022 10:00

Are people aware how low the pay is for workers in nurseries? Isn't it min wage in some cases? That's insane for a job that is very hard and often mind numbing.

Yes, that’s why you get such poor care sometimes. It’s naive to think it will be otherwise when pay is so poor and schools often steer teen girls who aren’t doing well into childcare qualifications. There is no reason at all to say it isn’t a skilled job but we don’t treat it like it is. Very skilled people do work in childcare but they are rarely paid accordingly!

My children’s nursery had several retired grandma’s working part time. They were amazing. It was just because it was a small nursery and had a chilled, family feel. Although there were some younger ones (good for running about with the older children!) I felt safer leaving my baby with them and very often they would cuddle the babies most of the day, which is what they need more than stimulation at that age.

Zonder · 19/03/2022 10:01

Of course the easiest way to pay more than minimum wage to nursery staff would be to hike the prices up for parents. Who is going to be happy with that?

Owieeee · 19/03/2022 10:06

Exactly, I think the older the workers are the better tbh, I worked in Pupil referral units a long time ago and many of the girls we worked with chose childcare as an option to go on to work in. In a lot of cases they were not suitable candidates really.
I imagine that people with degrees and post grads in child psychology and childcare are not working in nurseries for min wage, I imagine that's v v rare to non existent tbh. I am not in the UK but how much are workers paid in nurseries now ? Is it salaried?

RoseslnTheHospital · 19/03/2022 10:07

@Owieeee

I really hope and presume that degree educated staff were we earning well over min wage then *@Parker231*
No head in the sand here either. The nursery we used had low staff turnover and were clear about the recruitment and retention efforts they went to to reward and promote staff. That was one of the reasons that they were our first choice.

Now what is an issue is that this kind of outstanding care was available to me because I could afford to pay for it, and it was available in my area. The more difficult solution is for childcare to be valued more and prioritised by government, and subsidised properly so that wages don't have to be minimum wage and nurseries can all afford to provide high quality care.

RobynNora · 19/03/2022 11:30

@RoseslnTheHospital and other PPs - respectfully, how do you know your head is not in the sand about your nursery? I'll admit I don't really know about ours! Not really. The Critical Science research link posted earlier finds that almost all parents feel like you do i.e. your personal experience is that your nursery is excellent but others are less good! Objective observers finds we parents are not great at judging quality.

Not to say yours isn't great, but it's something to be aware of and it's not always fair to say that the standards of other nurseries are not as high.

My favourite daycare is the cheapest as a matter of fact. I'm sure local parents at the pricier Montessori feel they have made the best choice too because we all have our head in the sand a bit and feel our nursery 'isn't like the others'.

We visited a few and liked the vibe of one, which is 'outstanding' but most of them are good or better anyway so who knows. Plus, confirmation bias exists and who wants to feel attacked when we read anything negative at all about nurseries?

user1487194234 · 19/03/2022 11:38

We used nursery,mine loved it
They were only ever part time and didn't start until 14 months
It suited me better than a child minder
We looked at quite a few
One I looked through the window and didn't like what I saw and just got back in the car

Hangthetowels · 19/03/2022 12:08

I can't believe people put babies into nurseries, it's absolute madness. Great for toddlers but babies should be with their families. Makes me so sad that this is normalised.

bellamountain · 19/03/2022 12:11

@Hangthetowels

I can't believe people put babies into nurseries, it's absolute madness. Great for toddlers but babies should be with their families. Makes me so sad that this is normalised.
I don't even know why we call them nurseries. They are day care centres plain and simple and some are pretty darn poor with poorly paid staff.
Parker231 · 19/03/2022 12:13

@Hangthetowels

I can't believe people put babies into nurseries, it's absolute madness. Great for toddlers but babies should be with their families. Makes me so sad that this is normalised.
We use nurseries because we want to - not difficult to understand?
Luredbyapomegranate · 19/03/2022 12:19

@Hangthetowels

I can't believe people put babies into nurseries, it's absolute madness. Great for toddlers but babies should be with their families. Makes me so sad that this is normalised.
Do you live under a rock? People use nurseries because they need to pay for childcare so they can go to work and pay the mortgage. Life is quite expensive.
lilahbelle · 19/03/2022 12:23

@Hangthetowels

I can't believe people put babies into nurseries, it's absolute madness. Great for toddlers but babies should be with their families. Makes me so sad that this is normalised.
Excuse me? It's not like we're all sitting at home twiddling our thumbs while sending our babies to nursery full time Hmm

Also not everyone has the luxury of family being close enough/willing or able to help out with childcare!

RoseslnTheHospital · 19/03/2022 12:25

@RobynNora because it's been objectively judged as outstanding repeatedly, it's a centre of excellence that trains other nursery staff. It's won several industry awards across multiple years. Of course that doesn't mean anything day to day, but I used to pick up at a variety of times that weren't standard pick up times and saw the nursery staff interacting as I'd expect them to every time. We had the same key worker for years and the nursery had the same senior members of staff across the period of time we had two children there. If it was a less than nurturing environment for my children then they wouldn't have been there. Obviously I could be hopelessly naive and kidding myself, but if this particular nursery isn't the best example of a nursery then no nursery is. I feel very lucky to have had such an amazing place available for my children. But what do I know!

RobynNora · 19/03/2022 12:38

@RoseslnTheHospital the problem is that this 'mine is great but most others can be dire' attitude makes everyone else feel bad.

This entire thread is full of poor women justifying their choices.

My own daft justification is that our undersubscribed nursery has more staff than kids and I don't send mine for more than 3 half days a week, but honestly I'm just another poor sod justifying my choices and getting judged by others.

I like that mine has old ladies working part time, but my mum friend ruled it out because she thinks the kids are understimulated (maybe they are - I honestly don't know). Loads of parents would say that sending my toddler 2/3 half days a week isn't great because they don't settle and will have raised cortisol. Like I say, we're all just doing our best.

My nursery is outstanding do, but most nurseries in this country are outstanding, yet everyone talks about their being so many subpar nurseries so who knows.

user1487194234 · 19/03/2022 12:41

ODFO Hang
Mine went to nursery as I wanted to continue my career
No regrets 20 plus years down the line
All DC doing great
I have fab job
All good

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