Are new mums given bad advice re: guests behaviour?

[Strawmite]

This is a reflection having recently visited a friend who’s just had her first baby. I went round when she was happy for me to and took a gift for baby, one for her and while there I asked if I could do anything for her- grab anything from the shops or take a bag of washing to drop back (I have 2 kids so know what that postnatal period is like!). My lovely friend burst into tears and said I was the only person who had offered and everyone else had only come round, given the baby a gift, had a cup of tea and then left. In her baby books and online it had said guests should/will help do some washing up, mind the baby while you sleep for an hour and bring meals which nobody did. Her mum came on day 2 and stayed for 3 nights and did do all those things- all the practical cleaning/cooking/washing etc (she’s v supportive). PIL have been 3 times in the 10 days but only for an hour or so a time as didn’t want to intrude.

Now what she’s experienced sounds quite reasonable to me and fairly similar to what I experienced. Friends and siblings would pop round for a cuddle with baby and perhaps drop a gift for an hour and DH would do tea coffee and biscuits. I wasn’t expected to host but also didn’t expect guests to do anything in the house- DH basically did everything the first 2 weeks.

I went away and reread some of my antenatal books and looked online and so many websites and books do say, along with making sure visits are on your terms which is fair enough, guests should offer to make tea, help out practically etc. did anyone else except guests to do that and feel upset when they didn’t? I gave my friend a big hug and offered to help however I can. She has a lovely DP who’s helping loads and her mum is close by. I didn’t in her postnatal haze want to say I think your expectations are a bit high/unreasonable but I think they’re a result of unreasonable advice.

What do you think?

YANBU, I would have been mortified to have guests cooking and cleaning for me. I was recovering from c sections but there are two adults in the house so making a cup of tea and passing around a box of biscuits isn't a big deal. I think visitors to new babies should keep it brief, hand the baby back over at the first sign of the parents wanting them and bring actual adult conversation about the outside world (as well as cooing over the baby).

If you live in a culture where bringing meals etc. is normal fair enough, but if she is only reading about this kind of thing in a book, maybe she should question how common it is in her peer group?

Many people would be horrified if somebody walked in and started cleaning the house, and many new mothers (particularly on MN) don’t want somebody else to look after their new baby.

However maybe she is just feeling generally overwhelmed and weepy?

@Merrymouse I think that’s absolutely it and it’s her first baby so I think she just thought that’s what happened. Definitely the overwhelmed and weepy feeling too- I remember it well.

Has she done these things for other people? Did she do them for you?

Yes, I think expectations of this kind of thing can get a bit extreme! My mum and maybe my best friend would do the cooking, cleaning stuff, but everyone else I wanted to come round to meet the baby and see them, not because I wanted to be looked after. They brought presents and biccies and I made them tea. DH was home for a month anyway so there was no need for anyone to be cooking and cleaning for us!

I do think there is a difference between the kind of guests who come and expect to be waited on and guests that come and just kind of get stuck in, but that's really limited to family mostly, surely? Like my mum when she visits will just put the kettle on, do washing up if it's there, etc. as that's just our normal dynamic, but some people have parents or in-laws who come and sit and expected to be looked after. I don't think it really matters when you're talking about visits of an hour or two, but if they're staying for longer it would be pretty rotten.

But in terms of just people coming round to see the baby for an hour or two, no I wouldn't expect them to cook for me or clean! I was happy for them to cuddle baby while I got to drink some tea.

@AnneLovesGilbert no she didn’t- she was single when I had my babies and I don’t think it would have occurred to her! She was lovely, messaged lots, bought round cute outfits but never did anything practical (and I would NEVER have asked or expected). She basically behaved exactly as a close friend would be expected to imo but didn’t do anything excessive!

YANBU

A lot of advice (on here and in baby books) seems to assume that friends and family of new parents have nothing else to do and will consider the new baby to be the centre of the world. In reality, most of us have to accept that the people around us are busy with their own lives too. It would be lovely to have someone visit and help out with a few things, or for visitors to only arrive exactly when it's convenient (which can change at the last minute so can't be planned in advance) etc but for most people visitors have other things going on and drop in to cuddle baby and have a cup of tea.

I think these days friends generally come for a short time and try not to create too much work or outstay their welcome. Family might do a bit more.

The idea that everyone's going to turn up with a casserole and scrub your loo is very outdated and sounds like something out of Coronation Street. We live in a more atomised way now, for better or (mainly) worse- more emphasis on privacy, less on community.

I think what your friend is saying is that you offered. No one else offered.....yes?

I don't think it's bad advice, I think it's born out new Mum's been pushed into having visitors when they aren't ready for them and being pushed aside so people can cuddle the baby. The advice is more - don't feel you have to host. If people are coming it should be to help, not push you aside and get newborn cuddles leaving you with the washing up, while your stitches are still healing.

I totally get it. You got it too - you called and said hey do you need anything - like any decent person would. She appreciated that. Isn't that all she was saying? Albeit while in an overly tired emotional way?

P.s no one else offered except her Mum.

I completely agree, and have thought this in the past. No one came round and offered to scrub my loo and I would have thought it was so weird (kind, but weird) if they had. They came to chat and see the baby. In practice people generally thought that travelling to visit us and the baby and bringing a gift was very much them doing 'their bit' already, and I feel like that when I visit a friend with a new baby - I try and always bring food for us to share while I'm there so they don't have to cater for me, and I wash up after that meal, but I don't try and clear their housework backlog while I'm there.

I also think a lot of this stuff is deeply sexist, because it seems to rest on the assumption that the new mum is responsible for cooking and cleaning and so if she's out of action other women will need to 'cover' for her. Why would a female friend have cooked for me post-partum rather than DH? It's different if it's a single mum (I don't actually know anyone who was single at the point of having the baby) but I don't really see why a couple with a baby would need everyone else to be their skivvies.

I suspect it's an idea from before paternity leave. If the dad went straight back to work after the birth, more help would be needed.

Hmm. I'm not sure I would've felt comfortable with people doing my dishes or laundry. Come round and by all means, make me a cup of tea - but I didn't expect any chores to be done.

I do think that it's more valuable to have someone come and do chores than come and expect to hold the baby for an hour though - I found it annoying when people thought they were helping by holding the baby when I was still in hyper-protective mode and didn't want to be without her for very long.

I'd only expect my mum to have done this.

A lot of internet advice is based around US customs.
My friend moved with young family to a US suburb and was unexpectedly bombarded by homemade meals when they moved in. Very touching really but not general UK style.

@Incognito32 I agree with you in principle and I would naturally offer to help in any way with close friends and family. I suppose my thoughts are actually you’re friends aren’t realistically going to do bits of housework for you so books and sites saying that is insincere. I very much agree with the advice of leave the washing up and cleaning, lower your standards, prioritise sleep etc but if you are led to believe it will all be done by guests and this doesn’t happen I can see you might be disappointed and feel let down when in fact that’s not really the culture here.

@PierresPotato that is sweet I suppose! I have a close friend who is Jewish and in their community they very much rally round and she had a meal dropped off daily for the first 2 weeks at least which is lovely. She dropped me in a lovely meal with my second DC and I was so grateful at the time!

IME people just want to hold the baby for a bit, then they get bored and bugger off again.

I would never have expected anyone to drop everything and run around after me, people have their own lives.

[quote Strawmite]@AnneLovesGilbert no she didn’t- she was single when I had my babies and I don’t think it would have occurred to her! She was lovely, messaged lots, bought round cute outfits but never did anything practical (and I would NEVER have asked or expected). She basically behaved exactly as a close friend would be expected to imo but didn’t do anything excessive![/quote]
Yes, people tend to be keener on being on the receiving end of this stuff!

I see people say all the time (often on MN) what a shame it is that we don't have a society where we all help the parents of small children, where communities give them loads of practical help and provide childcare, 'we weren't meant to raise children in isolation', etc. Which sounds lovely when I think about it right now, as the parent of a 3 year old and 1 year old. But when I remember that it would mean that once mine were a bit older, I would still have the rest of my life helping out with other people's children...? And people say 'the community' or similar, but they mean 'women'. Absolutely no one expects a man to rock up at the house of some friends with a newborn and to start doing the laundry. Him taking enough interest to visit at all would be considered above and beyond.

I agree - this kind of advice can create expectations that leave you miserable when not fulfilled. My DD was born in lockdown. No one was allowed to visit, let alone help in that way. DH and I were really struggling. Every article I read told me to relax and sleep while my guests cleaned my house, which made it so so worse because it seemed such a contrast with reality. With some perspective, I now wouldn’t expect anyone except family and perhaps some very close friends to help out in that way, even in normal times.

@MoreThanRubies I’m sorry lockdown newborn parents had it so hard 💔 I hope you’re made up for it since then with all the cuddles and support .

Is anyone here on Tesco home testers? I've been accepted but wondering if anyone has any experience!

It's a pity it doesn't happen. Our culture is disappointing.

@N0va maybe start a thread on chat as you’ll get more replies :)

Something out of Coronation Street?
How rude and patronising.
It's unthinkable to visit a new mother without taking a meal, or at the very least a cake.

@Strawmite oh yes, thank you! I now gleefully hand over my (much loved!) DD to any friends and family who are willing to cuddle and play with her.