Are new mums given bad advice re: guests behaviour?

[Strawmite]

This is a reflection having recently visited a friend who’s just had her first baby. I went round when she was happy for me to and took a gift for baby, one for her and while there I asked if I could do anything for her- grab anything from the shops or take a bag of washing to drop back (I have 2 kids so know what that postnatal period is like!). My lovely friend burst into tears and said I was the only person who had offered and everyone else had only come round, given the baby a gift, had a cup of tea and then left. In her baby books and online it had said guests should/will help do some washing up, mind the baby while you sleep for an hour and bring meals which nobody did. Her mum came on day 2 and stayed for 3 nights and did do all those things- all the practical cleaning/cooking/washing etc (she’s v supportive). PIL have been 3 times in the 10 days but only for an hour or so a time as didn’t want to intrude.

Now what she’s experienced sounds quite reasonable to me and fairly similar to what I experienced. Friends and siblings would pop round for a cuddle with baby and perhaps drop a gift for an hour and DH would do tea coffee and biscuits. I wasn’t expected to host but also didn’t expect guests to do anything in the house- DH basically did everything the first 2 weeks.

I went away and reread some of my antenatal books and looked online and so many websites and books do say, along with making sure visits are on your terms which is fair enough, guests should offer to make tea, help out practically etc. did anyone else except guests to do that and feel upset when they didn’t? I gave my friend a big hug and offered to help however I can. She has a lovely DP who’s helping loads and her mum is close by. I didn’t in her postnatal haze want to say I think your expectations are a bit high/unreasonable but I think they’re a result of unreasonable advice.

What do you think?

@Choppingonions it is I agree although I think we are very British about it and expect people to cope. If anyone, even an acquaintance, said they were struggling id bring them a meal, help them any way I could and I’m sure many would be the same. When people are in crisis or struggling people do come through but I think we assume new parents have support from their partner or parents and wait to be told if they need anything additional. If you did have people coming round with food and cleaning the house some people would find that suffocating (I would have been thrilled though )

@MoreThanRubies

I agree - this kind of advice can create expectations that leave you miserable when not fulfilled. My DD was born in lockdown. No one was allowed to visit, let alone help in that way. DH and I were really struggling. Every article I read told me to relax and sleep while my guests cleaned my house, which made it so so worse because it seemed such a contrast with reality. With some perspective, I now wouldn’t expect anyone except family and perhaps some very close friends to help out in that way, even in normal times.

I'm sorry you had that experience but it's interesting that you've now gained that perspective on it. I feel like for a lot of people early parenthood often includes having a lot of rosy ideas that don't come true, but that for the people I know (quite a few) who had a first baby in lockdown they're still convinced that all those things would have been true if it weren't for Covid and it seems really upsetting for them. I have a friend who is still, two years on, haunted by her belief that she'd definitely have breastfed successfully if it weren't for lockdown - she seems to think the health visitor would, under normal circumstances, have all but moved into her house to support her. In reality there was little to no support in our area long before Covid, but it makes me sad to see that she still feels so let down by what she thinks could have been.

People come to see the baby. Not to do laundry. Lets be honest here. That book should be burned

@IvysMum12

Something out of Coronation Street? How rude and patronising. It's unthinkable to visit a new mother without taking a meal, or at the very least a cake.

Not patronising at all. As all the previous responses on here show, it's no longer common for friends to cook and clean for a new mother. You may find it "unthinkable" not to take a meal round, but that's not the norm.

As with everything in life, clear communication and expressing your expectations is key. I don't think either is wrong, but she shouldn't be disappointed if she didn't ask! It would be an overstep for most people to start cleaning your house without being asked.

@Choppingonions

It's a pity it doesn't happen. Our culture is disappointing.

As some with my own small children with 6 (six!) close friends who are due their first baby in the remainder of this year, frankly I'm so glad that I don't have to go and clean their houses that I'm very happy with the exchange, which was that none of them came to clean mine!

I think it depends on what the new mum actually wants and needs. And how close you are for them to be able to tell you the truth without being polite.

My close friend didn't want people in her house moving about, making noise, doing housework etc. She wanted a peaceful environment without a load of foot traffic. I offered to make some meals and drop them on her doorstep, no pressure for her to see me. She said this is exactly what she needed.

It goes hand in hand with the "no one is providing free childcare for me" expectation that you often see brought up on here as well.

I think most people would feel doing housework as intrusive. If they are good enough friends/family to not feel so, then you can ask them if you want it doing.
Also many partners are also taking paternity leave at the "just had a baby" time - so they should be doing all the day to day household stuff meaning no need for anyone else to do it.

Yes I agree about covid @HardbackWriter. I had a second baby just as the first lockdown eased. I'm very glad it wasn't my first baby, as I'd found my first isolating enough a few years beforehand, but I've definitely seen some people on FB groups etc with unrealistic expectations of what it would've been like without the pandemic.

A first baby is just really hard no matter what, especially if you're also dealing with feeding issues/colic/reflux/your own recovery/PND etc etc.

I was very happy to see friends just for a chat and a cup of tea; really enjoyed their company. But no, did not expect (or want!) anyone to do household chores for me. A few friends asked if I wanted anything from the shops, but we have online deliveries so we were all set.

I had my first baby last Wednesday and ended up with stitches however the only person who has really helped do small bits around our house for my husband & I over the last week is my Mum (we are very close & speak many times a day). She done some washing for us, put dishwasher on and sorted some flowers. My husband & I have done everything else while baby is sleeping.

My friend was here all day on Saturday but i wouldnt expect her to do cleaning etc. I even made her cups of tea while she was here as she was having cuddles with our little man.

No one offered to do chores or cook for me, and I'd have found it odd, and weirdly patronising if they had (though I would have just politely declined of course).

Unless the new mum is single, I actually find the idea of bringing meals across quite sexist, as it seems to be founded on the assumption that I'd the woman is out of action, everyone will starve.

We ate decent meals as usual, cooked by either of us. When we had guests, sometimes I made drinks, if my husband was around sometimes he did. Often I'd bake cake or biscuits so we had something tasty to snack on.

It was a lovely treat having so many guests and I enjoyed catering for them.

The last thing I'd have wanted was someone to do my laundry.

When visiting friends with newborns, I'll often bring cake, but I do that when invited round anywhere (I really like cake 😂).

It would have never occurred to me to do anyone's laundry though!

@HardbackWriter yes, part of my brain still thinks that a non-lockdown maternity leave would have been all “popping into town with baby in a sling, for a coffee with my new best friends from NCT”, but in my more lucid moments I know it was always going to contain a large amount of “crying in my nightie at 5am because baby still won’t sleep and has just been sick all over us both again” . Lockdown just took away some of the external events that perhaps act as bright spots in the drudgery of early parenthood?

I remember reading about this in all the antenatal books. I really really didn't want people coming round to clean and do my washing etc. I had an emergency c-section for my first so couldn't drive and even being a passenger for the first couple of weeks was very uncomfortable. I felt very isolated stuck at home with just dh and the baby and when visitors came I was desperate to sit and chat to another human, I'd have hated them whizzing round with the Hoover so we couldn't talk

MIL kept trying to help and to be honest I just found it quite overwhelming. She kept emptying the dishwasher but didn't know where anything went so guessed and then I could never find anything in my own kitchen. She also took it upon herself to take a load of washing away, which included all the bloodstained clothes from the hospital which made me VERY uncomfortable

But yes, I agree this advice is all over the place for new mums and is unhelpful as most people don't realize this is expected of them

I didn't expect anyone to cook or clean for me after having mine. They came to meet and cuddle the baby not wash up. I did have one friend who took one look at how exhausted me and dh looked and made us a cup of tea before she sat down which was appreciated.

I never expected anyone to do anything practical really - it never occurred to me that they would. But then I didn't read many baby books

It was nice though because I was pleasantly surprised by people's generosity. Some of our friends took the time to bring us home cooked meals, mil would always cook and give the house a good scrub when she stayed (she didn't come often but then she lives far away) and my mum would come and sit with baby for 3+ hours once s week while I slept, bless her heart.

part of my brain still thinks that a non-lockdown maternity leave would have been all “popping into town with baby in a sling, for a coffee with my new best friends from NCT

@MoreThanRubies

Tbf, this was exactly what my first (non lockdown) maternity leave was like.

Yes, there was the rest of it, tiredness, vomit etc, but most days did consist if a baby group followed by a leisurely lunch with the parents st that group in a nearby cafe, and a slingy stroll. Best few months of my life

Those books are mostly full of shit to be honest about so many things.

Most people just wing it and get by. Three children here, and I look at some of the advice on line from those books and laugh.

A lot of women don’t want any visitors at all. I was one of them, no one saw my babies for 6 weeks and that’s okay too.

People being in my house washing up, touching my stuff and cooking/brining food (I have serious issues with eating food other people have cooked, I’m weird), would have pushed me over the edge.

It makes it all out to be so terrible for everyone. There’s almost a pressure to take all help on offer, but some people don’t want that.

I'd have felt really uncomfortable with practical help, rather they focussed on the baby.

The one time a friend did make a meal for me was post divorce, after renting I finally bought my own place. The first night my son and I slept there (we were moving in properly the next day) she came round with a pot of sausage pasta, wine/coke and a basket of firewood. Her partner lit our first fire for us that night.

I think adults need to use their words and say to guests "would you mind doing xxxx?" "Sorry I can't get up but the kettle is that way"
And otherwise yes guests cone to see baby and leave a gift...
I doubt the guests have read these books or manuals....

[quote MoreThanRubies]@HardbackWriter yes, part of my brain still thinks that a non-lockdown maternity leave would have been all “popping into town with baby in a sling, for a coffee with my new best friends from NCT”, but in my more lucid moments I know it was always going to contain a large amount of “crying in my nightie at 5am because baby still won’t sleep and has just been sick all over us both again” . Lockdown just took away some of the external events that perhaps act as bright spots in the drudgery of early parenthood?[/quote]
They might have been bright spots, or you might have spent your maternity wondering why people from the NCT group were meeting up without you, why the other mums at groups were so cliquey, why everyone you met was so insistent that their babies slept and why that made you feel so much worse at 5am... Don't get me wrong, I had one baby in 'normal' circumstances and then my second in lockdown and I'd choose the former every time, but I just didn't find the contrast as extreme as some of my friends believe it was.

Sign of the times I think. People having to read baby books, for information about what should happen after having a baby,, as in what should happen after having a baby, who should do what, who should visit, and all the rest.. I never wanted any visitors messing up my day, bringing me food, doing my washing etc. no crying or being upset,if people didn't visit, or ask if I was ok, its all very annoying.

YABU. My inlaws were absolute twats when they came to visit me post birth. They literally sat on their arses and waited to be served when I was four days post c section. Fil walked in on me cleaning the kitchen floor and crying and laughed and walked out. Before Im called a martyr, Im a total slattern when it comes to housework but floor was covered in food/grease stains.
If I was going to visit a friend who had a baby I would insist on making the tea/sandwiches or doing a bit of housework to help. Its basic fucking human kindness.

I would expect grandparents to help in some way depending on their age/ health/ how far they live. I would expect a friend to visit with a gift and something like biscuits or cake without any expectations at all. Otherwise it’s between me and DH.
You’ve offered because you’ve got time, opportunity and inclination to help. It’s more a point to you rather then minus to others, if it makes sense.
I think your friend has got unrealistic expectations and now upset and overwhelmed or something else is going on in her life.

The majority of my friends with kids did expect this, yes - I think because I saw the majority of my friends have kids during the Facebook era where lists of things to do when visiting a new mother were all the rage. I saw a lot of my friends post those and then do a bit of passive aggressive updating if they deemed that friends hadn't performed as expected.

Personally I don't get it - the person who should be doing the domestic help is the other parent, not the friends, who inevitably are women of course because nobody would expect a male friend to carry out this wifework. I got tired of being expected to be a skivvy, I have to be honest.