Families in a and e

[stormynight1]

Currently in a and e waiting to be seen and the rules at the moment are no one with you unless vulnerable etc. I was dropped off and partners now gone home and will come back later to get me. But I’m amazed at how many people are here with Someone there’s a lady in her 30s with both parents i had to stand for 5 minutes in pain until someone left as all sets where taken. Why can’t they read the rules or go wait in the car one couple have just got out a packed lunch type meal.

Whilst that's not great behaviour from that mother and daughter- do you not think that she may still have really felt she needed the support, especially if she was young?

I'm sure everyone going through chemo would cope better with someone there for support though.

It was fairly shitty behaviour from that mother & daughter.
I watched a man forced to leave his elderly mother to go into the waiting area alone.
Yes I was stood in the corridor with various other "next of kin". They've socially distanced the seats out in the waiting room. So patients get a seat and they are as covid safe as they can be.

If every patient brought their NoK into the waiting area they'd be no social distancing.

While I think most of Scotlands covid rules are OTT I do support it for cancer patients who already have enough on their plate without the risk of catching covid.

As someone in their 30s I wouldn't go with my "mummy and daddy".... so I'm sure there is a need for them to be there 🤷🏻‍♀️ also the nurse would have spoken to them and they would have explained the need to be therel

@Donra

We took our son to A&E last week. My husband drove and I sat in the back of the car in case he was sick. We were there for five hours and I took a blanket, a charger, an iPad, bottled water and snacks. Should I have gone without those comfort items? Or not gone with my child at all?

As for not allowing people in with you, well those aren’t the rules any more, there are no longer any Covid restrictions.

Don't be ridiculous! Nobody is suggesting that a five-year-old goes to A&E on their own. You'd expect their parents to be with them. I've been to A&E when there have been eight people for one patient. That's just ridiculous. Each of those people were sitting down and some patients were standing up.

You could see me sitting in A&E with DH, or one of my adult DC and wonder why they were with me. On the face of it all would look 'normal' - im autistic though and I often need someone with me. A high stress medical setting is one of the places I am least likely to be able to advocate for myself, I can have non verbal moments in times of high stress and if I vent talk then someone has to do it for me. In the waiting room? You wouldn't have a clue. You would just wonder WTF this adult had someone with her for.

@grey12

As someone in their 30s I wouldn't go with my "mummy and daddy".... so I'm sure there is a need for them to be there 🤷🏻‍♀️ also the nurse would have spoken to them and they would have explained the need to be therel

Why on earth not? On both my trips to A&E it was my parents who took me. Mum was the talker but didn't drive and Dad drove but was incredibly quiet. And actually my second trip they'd come to visit me realised how ill I was and called out the GP who in turn said A&E. I lived 30 miles from them at the time so made sense for us all to go together. Both my A&E visits resulted in a week long hospital stay.

@Donra

As for not allowing people in with you, well those aren’t the rules any more, there are no longer any Covid restrictions.

Still very much the rule here in SE London. I have an appointment on Monday with a consultant where I am expecting a diagnosis of a life changing condition but I have been told on the phone and in writing that patients cannot be accompanied.

I was in a&e in the summer. On my own but I was in too much pain to care what anyone else was doing or who they were with. We don’t know peoples circumstances, let alone judge them!! Packed lunch sounds good though I was there from early in morning till tea time without anything at all.

As a person who's spent a LOT of time in A&E with family who have chronic illnesses, we actually now pack a small A&E bag which includes 1 day of medication, phone charger, kindle, health bars, a sandwich and a bottle of water. It might look like we've 'brought a picnic' but we know the wait can be in excess of 6 hours (yep, even with chronic conditions).

I think it's best to avoid assuming you know what's going on in the lives of people there.

Sometimes people have 2 carers as if the person has unpredictable/complex mental health issues or brain injuries, it can take 2 people to calm them if there's some kind of meltdown. I find it easier to just read and focus on my family. 😊

I work in A&E, people take the absolute piss. We have signs everywhere saying no relatives but everyone ignores them or claims to be a carer if challenged. Or gives us abuse.

Obviously I have no problems with people who actually need carers before anyone shouts at me.

And most of them don’t need to be there. I can’t triage back to the go, all I can do is make someone a low priority if not urgent which usually means they wait for hours and then self discharge. What a waste of everyone’s time.

OK so there are good reasons why an adult may have someone with them. But that accompanying carer should NOT take a seat if there are patients standing.

I’ve been one of those patients in pain, exhausted but having to stand - or rather stagger against the wall or sink to the floor.

@LaChanticleer

OK so there are good reasons why an adult may have someone with them. But that accompanying carer should NOT take a seat if there are patients standing.

I’ve been one of those patients in pain, exhausted but having to stand - or rather stagger against the wall or sink to the floor.

I mean my DH is disabled so as an accompanying carer he absolutely would be taking a seat.

"OK so there are good reasons why an adult may have someone with them. But that accompanying carer should NOT take a seat if there are patients standing."

The accompanying carer may be disabled. eg the case with elderly patients and their partner.

@ItMustBeBedtimeSurely

I work in A&E, people take the absolute piss. We have signs everywhere saying no relatives but everyone ignores them or claims to be a carer if challenged. Or gives us abuse.

Obviously I have no problems with people who actually need carers before anyone shouts at me.

And most of them don’t need to be there. I can’t triage back to the go, all I can do is make someone a low priority if not urgent which usually means they wait for hours and then self discharge. What a waste of everyone’s time.

But why can't they have a relative with them? Because of the covid rules that aren't in place anymore?

I had to stand outside A&E last week in a queue in the dark for over an hour this week. Because of a misinterpretation of the covid rules, that aren't there.

The NHS staff are just making it up as they go along.

I know it's a high pressure job, there are lots of them out there though, and we don't all just get to make our own rules.

No one is making up their own rules, at least not in my department. We are trying to limit unnecessary people because covid is rife and we have vulnerable people in our waiting room. I can triage the patients and try and put the ones with suspected covid away from others but I can’t triage their relatives. And our department is so ridiculously busy that we are having to keep highly vulnerable (eg. Suspected neurogenic chemo patients) in the waiting room because we simple have no where else for them to go.

Wish I had took some food and some water a few weeks ago when I went into a&e. I was there 12 hours on my own and didn't eat or drink a thing, was starving by the end of it. I wasn't even in a fit enough state to find a venting machine

But literally anyone who walks through the door could have covid. Whether or not you suspect it by triaging them for something - maybe unconnected to covid. I could present to A&E with a broken leg and have covid. Will hospitals think like this forever?

But it would seem that your department has made up a rule to restrict the movement of accompanying relatives, which isn't in line with current government guidelines. Therefore people have to prove their status of requiring someone to accompany them, leaving it open to abuse. And many hospitals are - women in labour being deprived of their rights because an individual hospital has their own rules for example. Which just makes the pals departments even busier...

YANBU. I was in A&E a few months ago and a couple of friends assisted me in getting there as I was in so much pain.

The security guard was adamant that they left, which they did after they'd made sure I was checked in and settled in. He asked them multiple times to leave in the 5 mins they were there.

Then a couple came in and he didn't say a word to them. Then 3 people came in together and he didn't say a word to them either.

I didn't want my friends to stay with me as I knew I was in for the long haul (still didn't expect 8 hours mind!), but it did annoy me that others were able to have people with them and my friends were practically chased out the door.

@ohthejoysoftoddler

Its you that misunderstand, not the NHS. The national covid restrictions are a baseline - an organisation can choose to go above this.

Its like sick leave, or maternity pay, there's a legal minimum, but every company has its own policy which can go beyond the minimum.

If a hospital wants to reduce the risk of covid, then that's up to them

I was in a and e last weekend and there was a family of 5 sat there with a takeaway pizza box 😅 but I know other people will have been judging me because I was there for what only looked like a blister but it gave me a high heart rate, low blood pressure and a high temp, I ended up staying for 3 nights. It's always easy to judge but we don't always know the inside story :)

But the point is they aren't implementing them with consistency or with a common sense approach. Individual trusts have received huge amounts of criticism from organisations like birth rights, as they've been putting unfair rules in place, that restrict people rights.

And you can stand in the queue in A&E and see people walking in with 3 people accompanying them, and not be challenged. Yet, others are.

A family member of mine spent 36 hours on a temporary trolley a month ago. No one could come and see her. In that whole time, she was brought one glass of water. No food, no other drinks. Common sense, or decent care, must prevail.

@Spikeyball

"OK so there are good reasons why an adult may have someone with them. But that accompanying carer should NOT take a seat if there are patients standing."

The accompanying carer may be disabled. eg the case with elderly patients and their partner.

And if the patient has a broken leg? Is it still fine to keep them standing? The patient takes priority I'm afraid, they are there to be treated. The carer isn't, they are there to assist the one they care for.

It's not like there are always wheelchairs either, those things vanish quicker than socks in a washing machine.

@AllOfUsAreDead

And if the patient has a broken leg? Is it still fine to keep them standing? The patient takes priority I'm afraid, they are there to be treated. The carer isn't, they are there to assist the one they care for.

It's not like there are always wheelchairs either, those things vanish quicker than socks in a washing machine

I bet the person never spoke up - not to the person who sat, not to anyone else in the waiting room to ask for a seat, not to the reseptionist asking them to make an announcement or find them a chair or wheelchair.

They just grumbled silently.

Maybe the person who sat has sciatica but keeps a cheerful face on. Maybe they had been an a 12 hour shift. Maybe they were just rude and selfish.

But people can't read minds. They are absorbed in their own problems and don't spare a thought for whoever else is there.

[quote RandomBasic]@AllOfUsAreDead

And if the patient has a broken leg? Is it still fine to keep them standing? The patient takes priority I'm afraid, they are there to be treated. The carer isn't, they are there to assist the one they care for.

It's not like there are always wheelchairs either, those things vanish quicker than socks in a washing machine

I bet the person never spoke up - not to the person who sat, not to anyone else in the waiting room to ask for a seat, not to the reseptionist asking them to make an announcement or find them a chair or wheelchair.

They just grumbled silently.

Maybe the person who sat has sciatica but keeps a cheerful face on. Maybe they had been an a 12 hour shift. Maybe they were just rude and selfish.

But people can't read minds. They are absorbed in their own problems and don't spare a thought for whoever else is there.[/quote]
Some of them refuse to move. Some of them are just assholes. One poster mentioned how her husband had a broken leg but got up to help someone and an able bodied person nicked his chair making him stand the rest of the time.

I still think the patient takes priority and if you're sitting there taking a chair from someone who actually needs it, you're the issue. The carer could also get up, give the patient the chair and ask the receptionist for another. They aren't the priority.

@AllOfUsAreDead

Yes, 100% the naughty people shouldn't take chairs while patients are standing.

My point is that instead of silently grumbling or writing about it on Mumsnet years later, they need to say something to the receptionist or to the CF or third option, ask someone else for a seat.

"The patient takes priority I'm afraid, they are there to be treated. The carer isn't, they are there to assist the one they care for."

I would ask reception to sort out more chairs before I would be asking an 80 year old to move from the seat next to partner with dementia that they care for.