BIL charged indecent images. DH's favourite person

[LotinLife]

Need some advice on how to 1. Save our marriage 2. Whilst protecting our young children 3. Living with the fact that you're the only one that suspects.

So, BIL, who I've known for 15+ years and has always been a close relative. Knew him since he was a young teenager. My DH (older by 9+ years) loves him and has quoted on a number of occasions that he is his favourite person and has unconditional love for him. DH of course loves his children and they too are his favourite persons. Anyway, DH and BIL relationship is extremely close and has been commented on how close they are by all members of family and friends.

However, in the past year we were contacted by SS that he was charged with possession of indecent images and that he was to have no unsupervised visits with our children. Of course that came as a shock. SS apologised that in fact they should've contacted us earlier.
BIL hadn't told us anything.

But being a family we wanted to hear both sides (SS didn't go into the details). BIL broke down to DH via call and said that there was a couple of files to believed were found and he had no awareness of them because he had a large amount of neutral pornography all together. Now at the time I accepted this answer, if you had a couple of images out of thousands you could be innocent of not knowing they were there. We gave him the benefit of the doubt. we also understood why he didn't tell us and believe he was working up the courage to do so. I've know him since he was younger so I didn't suspect anything and I'll admit his is he abit of coward especially about tarnishing the image my DH has of him. We continue to back him up and allowed supervised visits.

Until the court charges were brought to light and the extent of the images. This was a year later. A couple of images (BIL said) turned into hundreds (plural) , all different categorises. He didn't me and my DH this was released but it was my FIL who said to us off handed. I read them and my heart fell. I also had questions, what does inaccessible mean etc? So those hundreds of images were inaccessible but a couple weren't and so I did a quick search and took the first answer that inaccessible meant the accused didn't have access to them... Which in our eyes matched the original story: that BIL didn't know they were there and how they got there. Again we believed him yet annoyed again he didn't inform us (so that we as a family could prepare to protect him).....
A month past since that revelation and I felt things didn't start to add up anymore.
2 files is not closer to a thousand files... Does inaccessible really mean that? There was no mention about malicious software to create those images out of thin air.... Surely the investigation team are the best to consider search results and parameters? How does someone even come across these?!
That's when I looked again at what inaccessible means and from definition it's simply that they were deleted or moved... But had left an imprint on the device, which the team can see what the file was and recover it. So unfortunately I dont know for sure if they were viewed before or simply deleted because they were mass deleted..... But again, that does not (in my opinion) equate to the original story.

I have now my suspicions. I worry for my children. I feel BIL, being the baby of the family, is grooming them all and that he could in fact groom my children when he is able (when his sentence is up/lifted).

My DH, I love him, but I have strong belief he will never believe my suspicions and quite frankly believe BIL is no threat.

I'm stuck in the position that it really is me against his family and he'll choose his family.

I've accepted that I may never convince him but then how can I ensure that BIL is not able to be a threat? If I divorce can I demand full custody to ensure they can not see BIL without supervision? Would that be guaranteed? Or should I maintain the marriage (which honestly was fine before this massive upheaval) but be that always vigilant hovering mother and manipulate events so that BIL is never alone with the children without offend DH. I know I would like to have the cut all ties off, but am I doing that to spite my face or, although more stressful and long term, be the one in control... Keep your friends close keep your enemies closer phrase comes to mind.

Still awaiting on BIL final sentence but if he's still allowed supervised visits am I able to anonymously ask SS to apply stricter rules without DH knowing so I can at least not have to start this vigilante/passive aggressive action to block BIL interaction immediately?

It seems like he will be sentenced to sign the sex offenders register, in which case he will not be allowed contact with children anyway so I don't think it needs to be the end of your marriage.

You can just stick to the rules of no contact and your DH won't be able to argue against it.

So sorry for the situation you have found yourself in.

I am just going to try and answer the question about your children's contact with your Husband if you were to separate.

In all likelihood your Husband would be able to have unsupervised contact as would your parents in law. The Court would expect your Husband to give an undertaking that he would not allow the children to have unsupervised contact with his brother. Some more conservative judges may make an order that the children not be brought into contact with the brother at all. Much will depend on whether he is convicted and if he is what he is convicted of.

The concern of course is that your Husband offers the undertaking but as he doesn't consider there is a risk/ minimises the risk he doesn't stick to it.

@Wondergirl100

This will not be a popular view but I tell you as my opinion - it is natural your husband wants to support and forgive his brother and I think it is healthy to allow space for that. That is a separate issue to whether your brother in law poses a risk to children.

This is incredibly traumatic for the family of the offender - and in that I include your husband. He may need time to come to terms with the horrific shock of learning what his brother has done.

it is very easy on mumsnet for people to talk about you leaving your husband to prtoect your children from your husband - that is just an easy thing to say but in reality you can allow your husband time to come to terms with what has happened - while protecting your children.

You have to put your children first - but you can do so without demonising your BIL or your brother who may need time to accept what has happened.

Without demonising the BIL

Have you read the OP?

There are a number of places you can go to for advice on this.

1. social services
2. NSPCC
3. a solicitor

All of these can be confidential conversations that your DH doesn't need to know about.

I would really recommend you are least start with the first two before you make any kind of decision or plan. This will give you the knowledge and information that you need to understand what your options are.

@lemmein

I would absolutely stop all contact, regardless of DHs feelings on this. Even supervised, you're sending a very clear message to your children that this man is in your 'circle', a trusted adult - if I found out as an adult that my parents knowingly allowed this I would massively judge them. Maybe ask your DH what his 'future DC' will think of him if he continues to support your BIL? When they find out in time that lovely uncle joe spent his leisure time watching children being raped?

I would also prepare myself for repercussions after he has been to court. Often these cases are reported on social media - if you live in a small community you could find your DC being ostracised if other parents recognise him as someone who regularly visits your home.

At the time I believe BIL I still saw this danger... I did request this: that there was to be no visits at our house.

This was met with a huge resistance and that is how the whole "perhaps divorce is on the cards" came about.

I would get help from a specialist officer to sit down with you and your husband and explain the different categories and what some of the legal jargon means. That may then convince your husband that he needs to be listening to your gut instincts re your children.

I’ve worked in child protection. You must not let this man anywhere near your children, supervised or otherwise.

If your DH does not agree you need to leave to protect your children, and speak to social services to ensure he does not facilitate contact with them and this man.

If you do not protect them social work will step in.

You have to be able to trust that your dp wont allow your children to see his brother. If your partner - whether hes the love of your life or not - acts like he isnt taking it seriously or would actually go against social services and put your children at risk, then surely theres no dilemma there. You put your childrens safety above ANY man.

I think you need to have another chat with your DH and talk about what it all means and what you want to happen (ie. no contact between BIL and your kids). As long as you both can get to that page.

Your BIL is a peadophile. You and your DH shouldn't be letting him within a million miles of your kids. Your DH needs to put more effort into protecting his children instead of protecting the man who is a danger to them.

This will not be a popular view but I tell you as my opinion - it is natural your husband wants to support and forgive his brother and I think it is healthy to allow space for that. That is a separate issue to whether your brother in law poses a risk to children.

If my brother got his sexual kicks from looking at images of children being raped I certainly would not forgive him. Same goes for all other family members. I would 100% this from my husband too. I married my husband because he's a nice man. A nice person does not support a child abuser.

Ask to speak frankly to a social worker and ask all of the questions you need to ask.

I worked in criminal law for many years, and dealt with a lot of these cases. Do not believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Almost everyone convicted of these offences tries to claim they downloaded the images by accident. I only remember one case where that turned out to be remotely credible, and it had some very specific and unusual circumstances.

If your husband needs convincing, then you need to know exactly what category these images fall into, how many there were, and how he was picked up. The police may be willing to talk to you, given there is a potential child protection issue, or if you have a sensible SS contact, they may be able to provide more information. A single lower category image could - just about - support his version of events. Multiple images and/or higher categories - not a chance. Particularly given the implication of thousands of deleted files.

The most straightforward way for your husband to understand the situation would be for him to go to the sentencing hearing and listen to the prosecution's summary of the offences. That will contain numbers of images, the circumstances of the offences, categorisation, what he said/didn't say in interview etc. It might be difficult for him to bury his head in the sand if he hears it all set out like that, while his brother sits there, having admitted to it all. If he just gets the sentencing details after the hearing, it would be a lot easier for his brother to spin it. Ideally, you both go, both hear it, and then everyone has the same information and it's all out in the open.

Horrible situation for you to be in. I wish you well.

What is your relationship like historically with BIL?

Did you ever suspect?

Did he have much alone time with your children?

Protect your children no matter what the cost!!!!!

I would be prepared to leave my DH if in was in your situation.
Your gut instinct is screaming.
Pedophiles are Master's with manipulation and gentle grooming.
I very recently discovered a friend who I held close to my heart groomed a young girl, he called it a secret relationship, it went on for 2 years she was 13 when it started.
Makes me sick I thought he was a lovely guy.

Your DH may be in denial, it's hard to believe someone we know, love, and are extremely close to - can be capable of such a thing.

Totally understand your concern, but is it fair to just assume your husband will choose his pedophile BIL over his own children? You need to talk to him.

i think you and your husband should attend the sentencing hearing in BiL's case. You will be able to hear exactly what it is that he did and what "mitigation" is put forward. if you do this then your DH will not be able to dissemble support for his brother he will have the facts in the cold light of day. The court will tell you when the case is listed if you don't already know. As a young solicitor I dealt with many cases of this type and never had a client who told me - or the police- the truth in the first interview.

The husband of a family member spent time in prison for possessing indecent images of children. He was arrested again for it recently but nothing came of it. The family member he is married to must be burying her head in the sand or something. She's always wanted kids but that can't happen with him. She fell out with other family members because they don't want him near them. I just don't understand how she can live like that. I know if you love someone you stay loyal to them but there are things you just shouldn't overlook.

I agree

And furthermore if you also get some legal input into your situation so that you can establish what structure you can put in place to protect your kids, and if H isn’t onboard how to prevent HIM from putting them at risk.

That’s a harder task, so your best option is to have another meeting with SS and get them to help you both keep the kids safe.

You need people to tell your h honestly what BIL had accessed so that he can see that BIL is a monster

He WILL harm your kids if he has access to them. Any access at all will damage them.

I should also say that you can't definitively rely on SS to insist on no contact conditions. There's a longstanding view among some professionals that indecent image offenders tend not to escalate to contact offences. I don't know how pervasive that view is these days as I don't work in the field anymore, but I was involve in cases where unsupervised contact was allowed - albeit usually with the offender's own children, rather than extended family.

You need your husband on side.

Unfortunately you need to stop all visits with the children, your brother can still see BIL but the brother cannot see the children for even supervised visits. Your husband must understand this is a decision as they’re mother you are making and he either stands by you or you separate and apply due full custody!

How old are your DC OP? I was told about creepy uncle when I was about 8 and I understood what my DM was talking about. There are age-appropriate ways to speak to DC about grooming/paedophilia.

Aside from that, I would do whatever you have to to keep your DC safe. If your DH is not prepared to do this, then he's a disgrace.

I noticed when you discussed his favourite people too that you included BIL and your DC. What about you?

"At the time I believe BIL I still saw this danger... I did request this: that there was to be no visits at our house.

This was met with a huge resistance and that is how the whole "perhaps divorce is on the cards" came about."

So his response isn't to protect his kids but that his brother must be allowed to visit.

Why do you want to stay married to him?

Your DH can live his brother regardless of his crimes, but that brother is a paedophile and should have absolutely NO contact whatsoever with your children.someone needs to sit your DH down and explain this to him if he cannot accept it from you.
NO contact. Not supervised contact. As an uncle he has no rights to see the children - NONE.